These guys plan a universal stick base with grips options:

http://www.splash-one-bandit.com/

BTW - Thrustmaster announce a new HOTAS Warthog.


Sokol1

Wasn't this going to be one of the HOTAS Cougar's most touted features, only to find that nobody ever got around to making alternative stick grips (or the fabled, toebrake-equipped "RCS Pro", for that matter)?

In any case, I really would like to see this happen...especially since the use of interchangeable stick bases provides a really compelling option that Thrustmaster, CH Products, Saitek, and Logitech are all missing (well, maybe not TM with the Cougar's detachable stick, but you'd have to make sure to procure extra stick bases).

Some people prefer deflecting sticks with quality gimbals. Others prefer a force-feedback stick. Still, others prefer a tensometric/force-driven stick (think FCC/FSSB for Cougar, X65F stick, or the real F-16/F-22/F-35 side sticks). And then, for the former two, people might prefer varying stick shaft lengths (say, to better replicate a WWI/WWII-era warbird feel).

With such a solution, you don't have to compromise between preferred stick feel and preferred stick/throttle grips! Bonus points if Splash One Bandit gives their devices programmability on par with CH Products or at least TM's Cougar, as well as allowing us to merge the components into a single DirectInput device if need be (a glaring omission with Logitech's G940 at the moment).

Another informative and interesting post, Sokol1! I wish these guys a lot of success in starting up their company and hope they can meet the goals in the business plan. Looking at how they already have parts listed (buttons, hat switch) that they may be a good compromise between the pre-packaged, wholly completed sim controls and the "here's a 60 year old photograph now go carve a KG13 out of a soap bar" kind of sim control.
I think I have enough skills to attempt the wiring and mechanical steps in some of Mike Powells chapters of BRFS...but it would be great to have some "blanks" of control grips I could use for a more realistic feel.

Thanks again,
Derek

I place my bets on the newcomers rather than Thrustmaster. They appear to have dedication, Guillemot OTOH does not. They are after making big sales. Case in point; their lack of support for the Cougar's flaws. After the Cougar debacle they have a lot of ground to cover. Sorry, paying $300+ for the product only to invest big bucks on community based mods - kudos to the modders who gave the Cougar its raison d'etre - to run it like it should have in the first place, is just wrong. And where are the promised alternate F-15, F-18 grips???
Guillemot has the resources to come with a competitively priced product that for once works out of the box. They better get it right this time, or else quit the sim controllers market and stay with consoles.

Thanks Sokol1 for starting this tread, I'm the one delveloping this HOTAS. i hope to have a prototype ready by spring '10. I'll try to answer every and all questions. i have a post over at checksix http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=5209.0 . if needed or requested, i can do a full post here also.
thanks for looking....Steve

Very interesting work there. I wish you a great deal of success.

Hey, any plans for helo grips?

It would be nice if you could allow for the addition of an extension for the grip. I think short shaft sticks work well only if you are sitting in a simpit.

Man, I might actually wait and let you guys come with the final product, instead of buying Leo Bodnar's interface. That way I won't have to mess with any soldering.

Good work.

Thanks
Its possible to do some helo grips, but none in development at the moment.
Leo's controller is great and cheap compared to the others, its very basic. He offers some wire connectors for sale on his site if your a little rusty at soldering.
Thanks again...Steve

Hello All, got a couple more switch hats ready, the website should be updated shortly.

I might consider putting a package deal together for Cougar users (or anyone), all 3 new replicated switch hats (maybe a forth too) at a discounted price. DMS, Chaff/Flare, Mic, and maybe the paddle if I produce it.


I need a couple favors though, it won’t cost a dime.

First, I need to work out the process for international shipping, so I’ll offer a few people around the world free hat switch covers. But you must be willing to write a review of sorts on what you think about them (hopefully positive). If you’re interested, please PM me.


Second, I made up a replacement for the paddle switch lever for the cougar (or FLCS) which replicates the real paddle switch lever on the F-16 SSC. I used an old FLCS stick and need to know if the cougar paddle switch design is the same. I don’t own a cougar and can’t see how their paddle was designed. Do you think this is something people will want?? Or should I just scrap the project?


Some pic were added here
http://forum.combatace.com/topic/48455-independent-startup-for-high-end-hotas/
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=5209.0
Thanks....Steve

Thanks for posting the update, Steve. I'm afraid I can't help with either of your requests since I'm here in the states and I'm not a "jet-jockey"...but; I couldn't seem to view the pics you placed on the forums listed above. Unless i was holding my mouth wrong, you have to register for the files to show. I'm having trouble keeping up with the half-dozen forums I'm on now.

Any chance you could post a pic or three here on SimHQ?
Thanks and have a good weekend!
Derek

Casual,

I have a friend of mine that wants to sell his Cougar NIB (only removed for store display) for $100 if you are wanting one in great condition. If you don't want it I am going to buy it.

As for the other PM sent and will help you out in the review department.

Here's some pics, thanks Derek for the info.

Steve

Thanks for the heads up, but not really interested in buying a cougar just to see if the paddle switch will work or not. Hoping i can find a few folks who wouldn't mind trying it out. Check your PM in about 3-5 minutes.

Thanks..Steve

Casual,

Nice paddle, better than Cougar one.
You say FLCS? I have one F22PRO and a BU0836 to use.
You have a HAT cover like one for Cougar tumb device?
I plan replace the "eraserhead" thing with HAT or mini-stick.

Sokol1

Hi Sokol1
All of these switch hats should work with the F22PRO since TM used the same design for the 4-way switches. I used the FLCS as my prototype bench. I'm currently working on the old style thumb hat (not the reverse china hat that’s on the MLU's) that should be finished in a few weeks. When I converted my FLCS/TQS to the BU0836, I bought a 5-way mini switch (up/dwn/lt/rt/press) and replaced the eraserhead. In the design I’m working on, I plan on having a mini-stick for the RADAR cursor.

Steve

Hmmm... interesting! Very, very interesting stuff you got here!

Hey, you could always sell upgrade packs with HATs and stuff, as well as complete joysticks.
The reason I am saying this is that I have 1 FLCS, 1 F22 PRO and 2 TQS. The F22 Pro has Bob Church's Stickworks chips in it, and the FLCS is dismantled. I wanted to mod it, but haven't gotten to it yet.
Does Leo Bodnar's interface have the ability to operate a mini-stick like the Cougar's?? I wasn't aware of that. That's really interesting.

I'm thinking torwards that Monster, a value pack of switch hats... Yes Leo's chip does allow for use of a mini-stick, there was a schematic going around that showed how to wire it up (i made up my own for a more universal application) but it showed the TQS with a 5way radar cursor T1, T11, T12, T13, T14 is what i can remember (this how i have my TQS wired). if you want to use a mini-stick, just wire the 2 extra analogs to it and it should work fine. I will be using a mini-stick of sorts for RADAR cursor control on all throttles.

Steve

aRareKindOfMonster,

Here a schematic to rewire F16FLCS/F22PRo+TQS with BU0836.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ub...tml#Post2143104

To use mini-stick use the two "Extra axis" instead T11-T12-T13-T14 buttons.
The micro-switch (button) in mini-stick depress connect in T1 position.

Sokol1

Thanks, Sokol1!

That's great!

I suppose all hats will be different, right?
Are those you make made of cast alloy?
Also, are you currently only making FLSC/F22 Pro hats? Or are you making different ones as well, ie Cougar's mini stick (check picture).
I'd have a request; if you make the castelated hat, please customize it(check picture); I don't like it at all as it come on the F22 and FLCS. That hat's flat surface is just too big.


Also, have you found any decent 4 way switches, like the ones on FLCS or F22 Pro, or CH Products?

I've been trying to get hold of those, but can't find any. Those would be also great for custom throttles. If you do find some of these let me know.

Yep, I will be offering a variety of switch hats.


No, currently I am only making them in casting resin, which feels (in my opinion) better than plastic. Maybe in the future I can offer them in cast alloy, but that process is more expensive and i wish to keep the prices low.


Currently I am making switch hats for the F-16 HOTAS since this will be the first set of grips available. I have collected many different styles of hats from all different kinds of sticks and throttle grips along with some that i developed myself. I have the 2 you are refering to in your picture, but have not made the production molds yet.


I'm not really sure which hat your refering to. The DMS switch hat on the Cougar (lower right, below the trim/POV switch) is incorrect. I have the correctly modeled hat available.


I purchased a few actual aircraft trim switches, but the price for those was extremely high and the switch body was too big. I wouldn't have been able to get 4-4way switches in the stick. I also purchased a few 5way switches, like the type used in cell phones, but at $5-$6 a piece, (that times 4 for each one on the F-16 stick) it wouldn't keep the prices low enough for a business. I decided develop my own switch, which is close to completion, but not ready for sale. Hopefully soon.

Thanks for the question Monster...Steve

website updated, new parts added, check it out. www.splash-one-bandit.com

Steve

Nice work. The dogfitht switch and speedbrake look great. Those hats are well done. Don't think I am being fussy, but where is the china hat?

That should come in handy for those looking for custom joystick controllers, and the prices are very affordable.

You're still working on your 4 way switches, right? I would buy a few when you get it worked out. You might save me all the trouble of making - trying to make is more appropriate - my own.

Thanks Monter, yep i have china hats available, but didn't place them on the site. you think i should sell those also?? i also did the TMS switch hat. The Cougaar did those 2 hats correctly and at this stage i was thinking only folks wanting to "authenticate" their Cougar would buy the better DMS, CHAFF/FLARE and MIC hats. but if anyone is interested in a replacement China hat or TMS hat, i have those available, PM me for info.
still working on the 4 way switch. i have some crude ones done, but i'm not too happy with them, they work, but ugly. maybe another 2-4 weeks and i'll have them ready.

Thanks...Steve

Not everyone owns a Cougar, my friend!

And you know there are a lot of people customizing their controllers for use with Black Shark - what I am currently brainstorming on - as well as the fact there is no affordable market collective out there.

See how small my brain is, it only thinks in 1 dimension.

what would a good collective for black shark look like?? the only one i have any experience with is the blackhawks.

Difficult question to answer. Basically, ANY collective that worked would be a good collective.
As you know there have been quite a few people there crazy enough - and I am one that is contemplating following in their footsteps! - to invest time and money into making their custom controllers, in this case collectives, specifically. The first one that comes to mind is GrizzlyT's RAH-66 Comanche simpit, which needs no introduction anymore.
I just did a quick search on the Blackhawks' cockpit, and its collective looks worthy enough of me!
What is interesting is the implementation of different people's ideas.
In the end, there is no such thing as THE ideal collective. A lot people have come up with very sound, yet different solutions to their problems. While there are quite a number of HOTAS setups out there (which can be flown with different sims) there are yet to be any affordable and advanced collective sticks. And simmers out there have done a great job trying to find their own solutions.
Now, don't forget, no matter how much love, passion or madness one puts into such a project one still has to make sure it is compatible with future helo sims.
So, to me an authentic replica of a cockpit will not really cut it. DCS have announced they would - at a much later date - release an Apache helo, just as they announced the A-10. Can you picture yourself flying the Apache with a cockpit replica of the BS?
At best, it will be an incentive for such passionate simmers to create a new simpit.

A few examples ...

A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-5DI0Ouu08&NR=1 ('HOCAS', check this guy's collective, it can be locked into position)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0cfvmx-CZk (all metal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9YiVcy2X74 (collective - check also this guys panels)

And of course

http://home.comcast.net/~timothyboldt/simulator.htm (Aw'sum' )

great links monster. making a universal collective grip wouldn't be a problem, but making the actual collective mechanism might be.

Yep, there sure is a lot of work involved.

Why do you think some companies charge you thousands for a rudimentary helo pit?

www.Hovercontrol.com is another very nice resource on helo add ons and SIMPITS/CONTROLLER MODS

It's a privilege to have access to these guys' work. Many have done most of the work for the more inapt guy out there, cutting R&D for the hobby simmer to a minimum.
Question now is, which implementation is the right one for me?

[EDIT] http://www.flightlink.com/hardware/rotorwing/

A rough finish of the RADAR Cursor control. Should be ready for distro in a week or 2.

Nice!

I am keeping an eye on this.

I am also contemplating the purchase of a full set.

Do you still have the metal paddle switch for the FLCS? They are not listed on your parts page.

Hold off a bit on the full purchase Monster, i'm working on a package deal. need to re-mold the Radar elevation (new prototype in the pics) and Antenna gain knob. I'll have pics of a fully customized Cougar shortly.

I never produced the paddle in metal. its still only available in urathane resin. A few guys have tested it out and should be posting their comments on the forum about them (hint hint).

All Hats and Knobs work with the FLCS/TQS as well as the Cougar, except for the Radar Cursor control, it is only available for the Cougar. If you modifiy the trackball or eraser head with a 4-way switch, you may be able to use the one above, but i never tested that aspect of it.

Thanks for the comments.

Steve

Website updated, Cougar Mod package available, 4-way switches available.

www.splash-one-bandit.com

Steve

Very nice, Steve.

I wonder though, will you only sell the new hats with 4 way switches?

While I might consider buying 4 way switches in the future, I have been scavenging enough CH Products and Thrustmaster parts to cover my needs in that area for now.
The only thing I was looking for were hats.

Did you scrap your plans to sell them as kits?

Thanks Monster,
No, i will sell the new (and all) hats without the 4-way switch. I'm in the process of making the master molds right now. when i get them completed, i'll update the site.

You've brought up a good point Monster, I have never tried the hats with a CH stick and not sure if the diameter of the hole i'm drilling works with CH products. I'll have to note that on the website.

Current Hats are available in the Cougar mod page. I'll do some redesigning to include them on the Parts page. The kit i offer is just the full set of detailed hats and antenna knobs for the Cougar.

Thanks for the insight Monster,
...Steve

Thanks, Steve.

I don't want to throw you off course too much; you already have enough work cut out for you, as it were, so no need to fret too much about CH Products' compatibility. CH Products hats cannot be modded as easily as TM controllers; the hat and stem are a one piece construction.
I have to admit I prefer the feel of CH Products 4 switches; the tension is lower than on older TM switches, but is still solid nonetheless.

My suggestion; leave the drilling to any potential CH Product modders for a limited number of hats and see from there how the demand for that goes.
Apart from a number of hats to rejuvenate an old FLCS, I'd be interested in getting a few hats that aren't drilled so I could see how difficult it would be to mod CH gear with. Maybe with a few threaded standoffs...! I will have to look into that.

On a side note, and if it doesn't violate any trade secrets, I'd love to know how you go about your manufacturing process.

Thanks again, Steve. And good luck!

I can make any switch hat without the holes drilled. For anyone wishing this feature, just let me know in the instruction section of paypal.

My manufacturing process is pretty basic. When i can, i use my "sources" and quick mold actual switch hats from different aircrafts. i use a product called Amazing Putty produced my Alumillite which sets up in about 45 minutes. If i cant get the actual hat or the mold has a flaw, i will design an accurate replica hat in CAD and cnc a wax hat. when i'm satisfied with the wax hat, i'll then make a single mold from silicone rubber and make about 6 plastic hats, checking each for flaws (mostly tiny air bubbles). from there i will make a spin cast mold (spin machine i designed out of a ceiling fan motor) and thats the production mold. if business goes well i may advance into making metal hats.

i imagine everyone is eagerly waiting for the actual sticks and throttles to be produced. i wish i could hurry up that process, but i want to put out a quality part that people will appreciate and not ridicule. i thought i had a good flight stick ready for mass production, but the production molding process has had some setbacks and hasn't been to friendly. Soon i hope.

...Steve