Sadly, at this point the RoF experience can be summed up with one phrase:

"Been there, done that."

Yup, it's a great sim. But I've already done everything and seen everything in it. I start up Rof once, maybe twice, a week at this point. And then I ask myself, "Do I really want to setup another 45-60 minute mission that is completely predictable and ultimately unintesting?" And the answer is generally "no." Yeah, the coutryside is rendered nicely, but after hours and hours and hours of the SAME countryside over and over again, with about two minutes of 'action' mixed in, has just become old.

So I usually just setup a freeflight ground attack mission and strafe/bomb some vehicles. About 20 minutes of that and I'm done. Once or twice a week, then I move on to something else.

Selling me more planes isn't really going to add new 'content' to the experience. A new cockpit and flight model is interesting for a few minutes, but then it's simply more of the same. Nothing new or interesting to see or do.

And apparently once or twice a week is enough to be considered 'active' to neoqb, because I've not received their why aren't you playing RoF anymore? survey.

So what would be better? I know it's a completely different genre, but here's a great example of how to keep people interested: Bethesda Softworks' Fallout3. Aside from flight sims, I play very little in the way of games. But Fallout3 is an exception, and perhaps the best computer game ever developed. Like RoF, Fallout3 was exceptional when it was released. And, like RoF, there was huge initial interest in Fallout3 and folks (like me) played it for untold hours, exploring the huge, immersive environment. But despite the massive initial content, eventually you've seen nearly all of it, and it became, literally, "been there, done that."

So what did Bethesda do? They added more CONTENT! Content = new things to see and do. They charge, I dunno, about $12 USD for each expansion pack, and we happily and eagerly buy it because we know it's new content, which means there will be new things to see and do, not just a new suit for your character to wear.

Okay, there's a big difference between a simulation and a game. While the content of a game is limited only by imagination, a simulation like RoF has some obligation to strive for historical accuracy. However, somehow, neoqb is going to have to figure out how to inject some new content to this sim.

What's content in a flight sim? Isn't adding new planes the same as adding content? Well, maybe a little. But there still needs to be [repeating] NEW THINGS TO SEE AND DO. In a flight sim, that pretty much means MISSIONS. I'm not trying to minimize the call for improved DF servers, but that's only part of the picture. The sim needs career-type missions that are not repetitive and predictable. (p.s.: the 'players will develop missions' cop-out doesn't cut the mustard.)


neoqb: if you're listening... I've only bought two planes. I said I'd buy more when you got PayPal working. But you got it working too late. I've already (mostly) lost interest in Rof because I've already been there, done that. It's not worth the money or effort to buy new planes to fly the same uninteresting, predictable, and repetitive content.

Now, you include some interesting, new missions in the next update, then we'll have something to talk about! But the missions need to NOT follow this same, worn out plan:

********* HOW NOT TO WRITE A MISSION ************
1) Take off with 4 AI planes.
2) Fly 20-30 minutes to an action point.
3) Try to find the two bandits before the AIs do.
4) Try to get a few shots off on the bandits while dodging my AI flight mates who are trying to shoot/crash into me attacking the same bandit.
5) Look for recon flight on the way back, knowing full well that the tail-sniper with probably kill me with his first shot.

Give me something different/new/interesting to do in the sim, not tedious/repetitive/predictable.

Otherwise, my RoF DVD is getting awfully close to my Been There, Done That shelf.

MY HD crashed about a month ago and the backup I restored was made before I had installed ROF. I haven't re-installed it yet. I keep checking here waiting to see an announcement for (Il-2 style) DF servers. When that happens, I'll jump back in. For me, ROF is like having a Ferrari F40 and living on a 10 acre island. At first it's cool to just sit in and drive around and be seen in, but after a while it gets boring...No long straightaways to open it up and the only place to go fast is the local circle track but you have to wait your turn to take one lap then back to the end of the line to wait again. Obviously some disagree with me (and for that I'm thankful - if everyone was like me ROF would be dead and then DF wouldn't eventually show up) but for now I'm just sitting and waiting. I plan on buying planes eventually but as for now have no use for them. Hopefully true DF servers are coming soon...

"The King is dead, long live the King"

Popularity will wax and wane. Most flight sim enthusiasts will however recognize that ROF has some underlying brilliance and will, I'm sure, keep popping back and having another go, even if it takes some time to become a regular ride.

This sim has a long life ahead of it, and as it improves, will I'm certain become the sim of choice for many enthusiasts. Most games by there very nature have a very small window of opportunity to reel in customers before the next hook comes along and as such if there are issues it can kill the game stone dead. That's not the case with flight sims, competition isn't so fierce, and just like IL2 RoF has been built for the long term. Yes, challenging on hardware at the moment (Lock-ON anyone) but in a couple of years time, when the sim has matured, just like IL2, then it's spec's should be spot on. It shouldn't end up on a shelf, a great sim, but hey, we've moved on the the next pretty little bicycle (ride) which many of us could probably say about BOB2 (a shame because it really is very good).

As to being on-line I wouldn't worry too much, like me they're probably enjoying the single player element and will dabble and move over to it more fully as they become proficient at flying or less excited by the challenges offered by the AI. I have to add that I'm just enjoying the feeling of flying in this sim more than in any other sim I've played, FSX just bores me, but this, this gets my juices flowing (simple pleasures for simple minds )

I'm not going to say dead. Maybe more like a newborn that was under developed and placed on life support until it has time to grow enough to be taken off and breathe on it's own.

No offense, but I can't make a comparison between Bethesda (now) and NeoQB.
Beth is huge with tons of resourses. NeoQB is small and new to the business.
Bethesda has had some teething pains of their own, in their beginning.
Bethesda can demand extra time for development if they don't feel their game(s) are ready for release. NeoQB probably doesn't have that much pull, yet anyway.

like many sims, its interest lies in online play for many people, teh same people that, usually, come to boards like this one.

thing is, the multiplayer code needs a lot of improvement (and reduction in needed bandwidth) to be enjoyable like IL2 can be, for example.

What interest for a squad, when you can't host a game for more than 3 or 4 people maximum?

In my squad, there are a dozen guys having it, but as we can't fly all together, we simply stick to where the fun is (still, after 8 years)... IL-2

when ROF becomes multiplayer-friendlyl, I think it will see the numbers of participants rise

I can't speak to your situation of course, but the War Hawks have missions that I host on my home machine regularly. We had seven of us online without significant lag both Wednesday and Friday this week ... we had a great time.

There are MP issues with ROF to be sure, but it plays well enough for us that we've now instituted a weekly campaign with missions created by WH_Gustang and anywhere from 6 to 10 of us flying.

YMMV of course.

WH_JoeBob

LOL, Hedgehog, I only fly IL-2 once or twice a week and Black Shark less than that. Are those sims dead to me as well?

I'd say that if you're flying RoF one or two evenings out of the week that's a pretty good sign of a decent simulation!

"Flying" is a pretty strong word... how about "starting?"

I start the sim. So neoqb gets the ping and says, "Ah! Another satisfied customer!" But I'm not "flying" it anymore. As I described, in the past few weeks, all I've done is start freeflight sessions and strafed/bombed stuff around the airfield. Realisticly maybe 10 minutes at a pop. One time was simply to show the sim to someone else.

Does that make me an active RoF player? If that meets anybody's definition of active participation in a sim, that's just sad.

I am very interested in ROF and would be much more inclined to play if the multiplayer functionality were improved. Part of the problem of course is the age of my PC. I am sure if I were running a Core i7 with 12 gigs of memory and a 1 Gb video card that things would be better, but that doesn't make up for some of the fundamental faults on RoF.

Right now, I try to log into RoF multiplayer about once an evening and single player maybe once a week.

Give me dogfight style servers with one to three hour missions containing ground- and air-based objectives and the capacity for about 30 players stable and I'd be pretty damn happy if people actually came to fly on it.

thing is that the upload bandwidths is concerned, and while several of our guys host with no problem with Il-2, they can maange only about three, maximum four players in game at the same time...