I'm enjoying this. Very much, as a matter of fact. I see that a lot of people aren't. Magnum said it's about 70% for and 30% against.
"What's there not to like," I'm thinking, as someone who thinks it's a good one.
So, looking at it in an unbiased way, I think I understand the problem. It has more to do with developer hype than anything that may be wrong, or thought to be wrong, with the game. Goes for them all, I suppose.
I hadn't read much, so I really didn't know what to expect. I really didn't even think it would run well on my system when I saw the screenshots, so that was a big plus for me. It runs great.
Trouble is, that the devs were out there making this sound as though this was some groundbreaking new shooter the likes of which has never been seen before. And that's what a lot of people were expecting and didn't get. There are things that it doesn't do, that others do and that alone keeps it from being a groundbreaking game.
If you're going to tell people that you are serving filet mignon for dinner, you can't put a sirloin in front of them. It may be a terrific sirloin, but you promised filet mignon!!
I like a good top sirloin steak, so I'm enjoying this. I'm a flight simmer so I don't have as much experience as most of you do with shooters, so that helps me, too. I'm not comparing it to anything.
I know these gaming companies are supposed to sell their projects, so they, naturally , have to tell you they're the best game, yet. I think that if you jump into these games with that in mind, you can enjoy them a lot more.
Expect a top sirloin so that you won't be disappointed. And if there happens to be some filet mixed in there, then that's just a plus.

Nice post Pooch...........I had the smoothest install for a game in a long time. All went well.

Getting about 54 FPS so far without any tweaking yet. Looks good and sounds good.

I agree this game is good, but not earth shattering like it was hyped. Its a solid game, maybe a real good Co-Op but limited numbers is kind of a bummer.

Also disappointed with lack of TrackIR support. Or chosing loadouts.

The Command Comm seems a little cleaner than the "other' games. I like it because its similar to RS6:V style.
I am willing to give it time and effort.

Well thou it is made for co-op and co-op is good... my biggest beef and a SP campaign gamer ruiner is the stupid stupid AI... you tell them to move behind a sand bag and they stand in front of it... you tell your saw gunner to suppress a machine gun nest and he stands upright next to me, out in the open and never fires a shot, you tell your other 2 members to flank right or assault and they crawl or move slow doing it, getting themselves killed, a proper flank is that suppressive fire keeps the enemies heads low while the flankers run like hell, to get in a good flank.

I'm on mission 5 or 6 in the campaign, and the campaign is great... but the AI are STUPID... sure sometimes you see them do it right or properly engage but not all the time.

co-op is where this game is at... and with only 11 campaign missions, and 6 stand alone missions... replay value will DIE in 30 to 45 days.

Codemasters better get off their asses, fixes some things and release some extras otherwise this game will just be another closet memory.

I'm getting bored already.

unfortunitly... OFP DR don't work well with FRAPS, so I can't share video footage for the people who will say... "Your just not playing it right".

(Maybe they did that on purpose too. lol)

I think much of the gaming community is becoming saturated with what they've already played before (been there done that), and the expectations of greater experiences to come.

I can hardly read a forum or published review today where there aren't comparisons looking back to past games/sims. This is proof positive of how our views and expectations work, example.....it's not like ARMA II in this regards, it's like a Delta Force but improved, etc.. Every new title has to shake off the "coat-tails" effect of coming after some other previous game. The thing is, if we are still playing a game/sim after a year or two, it's probably because we've become comfortable with it, and with all its warts and limitations too.

Now comes along a new title that we haven't reach any degree of acceptance for, it's new afterall, and even a bit raw in build and familiarity.

Advance a few years from now, and we'll be reading the same type of comparisons and reviews again.....it's not like Dragon Rising.

I think Dragon Rising will probably become a pretty successful title, because it brings a new battlefield tactical shooter to the console platforms. Many console players are going to love DR because its type of gameplay is new to them, because they aren't drawing comparisons to prior shooters they've become comfortable with, and will end up enjoying this new game for the game experiences it provides them. I'm sure there will be a number of PC gamers who will enjoy Dragon Rising also.

So in a year's time or so, after all the patches, and new content, and new features to Dragon Rising, no doubt there's going to be another shooter that comes along, and these expectations and comparisons will start all over again.......

Agreed, IL2 Birds of Prey gets the same treatment. Excellent game but "it's not like _____" "that game had ____ and it's not here!"
It gets old. When a new game comes out many people turn into game developers, programmers and critics all rolled into one. I guess nitpicking is seen as making one an authority figure. Not many seem to look at a game as a whole to see how good it is, and they miss out for the joy of complaining rather than gaming.

You made me hungry with all that talk of steak .

After trying it to see it worked on my pc even though my cpu is lower than the minimum, and it works perfectly by the way, i have been out and bought it today. I really like it. Its like ghost recon on a large map to me, not as good as arma2 but in its own right very good. And if that comment from one of the devs holds true they are to release new content soon...

Looking forward to coop!

LOL Mace, you're now Exhibit A, but it's all good!

If people aren't willing to try new things, I guess they're waiting for luck to find them?


I'd rather make a well-intentioned mistake on a game purchase, rather than to miss out on the chance of some good fun.

Couple Of letters for ya Mags, Can you say DLC?

I knew ya could.

Yep... I can say DLC... can you say "more money"...

Will be great if the DLC is free, but I highly doubt it... and I think 400 or 800 M$ points will be a bunch of BS for 6 missions or so... IMO, they need to either release missions free or at least have a quick mission editor in that DLC.


and no DLC content is going to fix stupid AI, or game killing bugs and/or game play decisions... that will be called a patch... will we pay for that too?

The AI has been nothing but superb in my experience thus far, I haven't had any issues with them following orders correctly. I'm sure some issues will prop up for me, but wasn't ArmA 2 plagued with AI problems as well?

It is in fact the devs fault. That's why I said "it better be good." All the hoopla over how great this will be. Well in fact, it is just another shooter with pretty graphics. What dos it really offer that another doesn't?

actually the graphics aren't that good.. close up, lol... Just submitted my review for editing and posting... gameplay, especially co-op gameplay is where this game shines.

JMO

and JayTac... welcome to SimHQ, so how far you gotten in the camapign... tell me what you think of the AI after the first 4 or 5 missions... you need time with the game to really see the good and bad in it. (not saying you haven't played it, maybe you played it all... and if so, we got to different games. lol.)

Thanks for the welcome. I just tried to start a campaign a little while ago and it doesn't work at all, lol, how ironic is that... sighs.. Anyway prior to that I was mainly speaking from ~3-4 hours of gameplay commanding the AI in the single mission, some quick custom missions I made, and online. But yeah in my campaign it won't go past the first cinematic screen after the intro, it just sits there and I can't move my player. I tried restarting it twice and still have the same problem.

There's always going to be lively debate when you pass a console game off to PC gamers. I think my problem is, I was really expecting something close to the original OP.

Thanks

May I suggest giving the assault/defend mode a try if you haven't already? I was starting to become a little disappointed myself until I began playing more assault and less of the annihilation (which just turns out to be a BS frag fest usually). Assault/Defend is a lot of fun especially with the right group of guys. Those maps are a bit more open, objective based, and requires some teamwork and good tactics.

So it sounds like this is good game. Not a great one, but a good one. I can deal with that. I was so frustrated by the first Operation: Flashpoint. God, if I saw 'You Are Dead' one more time, I swore I was going to use the CD for a clay pigeon.

I realize it wasn't 'Quake' and I understood that perfectly, but I'd spend at least an hour creeping through a forest, trying to sneak up on an enemy and get blown away by something the size of a pixel. Or a guy on patrol who has no idea where I am until he suddenly and without warning turns around and fires 1,846 rounds through heavy brush and I get hit by every last damned one of them.

I know that's sorta how it happens in real life, which is a sobering thought, but I want to play a game, not learn a life lesson.

I'm not saying I want COD4, but I do like 'playing' a game. Any chance we can strike a balance?

pfunk

They hyped the heck out of this game and back making it sound like it was going to just blow the original OFP and ARMA out of the water. So imagine my disapointment when i open a OFP game box and upon playing it find out instead i have a console shooter. It's really all in the marketing i mean they got me to buy the game based on the name and the BS. They got me once. Not falling for it again. I'm sure alot of console gamers think the game is great, but it doesn't even remotely stand up to it's namesake on any grounds at all. The graphics are subpar compared to ARMA and the gameplay is a shooter on rails. Sure you CAN go anywhere, but why would you when you have a checkpoint you're supposed to go through every 200m.

Don't even get me started on all the realism issues. it's sad really that this is what the OFP name was reduced to. Like i said i'm sure alot of people like the game, but i think it's subpar and doesn't deserve the name it carries.

I have it for the 360 only right now and I am enjoying it. I have ARMA2 on the PC so I did not feel like buying OFDR for it until some of you played it. I enjoy it on the 360 because..... no bunnyhoppers!!!!
I am enjoying the campaign and usually will not follow the waypoints because it seems I die more often when I do.


Quickcord

I got this on PS3 and finding it a frustrating gaming experience. Sometimes you get stuck in 'checkpoints' that are insta-death requiring complete mission restart. Long load times and no player choice of checkpoint makes on feel that they really don't want me to play this game. No editor either on this format.

For the console @ 40 quid this game feels like a bum deal. It's a pretty game, sometimes less is more. But I can live without the dumb AI and staring at statistics and a load spinner for most of the evening. "You fired 0 SAMS, you suck, you will wait to die again. Your small arms hit count is laughable."

Something is wrong when you have a new game and you're always thinking about making more coffee while waiting to play it again.

It's ok but it's not great on PS3. I should have gone the PC route. Hit me.

I have to admit, I just don't understand the whole Arma2 thing. I bought the German download when it came out, with the English patch, but I really just couldn't get into it. The audio was terrible, those robotic voices. And the graphics. I thought they were terrible. Pretty sure I had them maxed out, but they didn't remotely compare with OFPDR on the PC, which I also have maxed out (quad core 2.4Ghz a/ATI 4850 w/1gig of RAM on the card).

Everybody is going on about how much better than this Arma2 is, maybe I should give it another go this weekend - just really can't see it though.

And to me, that REALLY shows that it's all subjective and about what you want for a game. OFPDR is my game of the year, definitely.

aren't you working for/with the OFP DR development team? lol Come on now... lol

I do love this game, but no way in hell is it as good as ArmA2 (total package wise)... I could make a list but it would take all day, lol... and it definitely ain't even near a game of the year award. They got 25% of this game GREAT, and then 75% of it half assed.

IMO.

And that's why I said it's all about what you want. for me, it's better, for you it's not. What's so hard to udnerstand about that?

No problems their bud... your game of the year is fine with me, lol... but I'd like to know why you think it's game of the year material, just curious, not trying to be controversial.

and are you working with Codemasters on this game, or the upcoming DLC are you not? Just asking... I think it's important for readers to know if your working for a company when you say, before the edit, this is game of the year. I would feel obligated to inform the readers in my review if I received the game for free... which by the way, I did NOT! lol

Hope your not taking this wrong or as some attack... it's a great game, I love it... but would be interested in knowing why you or anyone here at SimHQ thinks it would deserve game of the year, especially with the end of the year round up on my mind.

Erm, I've already said multiple times I work with Codemasters, and you know for a fact I do because I was the one who put you in touch with them. I'm not going to repeat it every time I post about the game.

For me, I just can't get into Arma2 for various reasons, which I think I already posted. The audio is awful, the robotic voices (man, 300 metres, north) just get me - I don't like thinking I'm in a firefight with Stephen Hawkign beside me. For some reason my campaign never lets me get past about mission three before crashing, and I've long since given up deleting my saved campaign and starting again. The clipping in some of the missions really destroys the immersion for me. And no, I can't remember which ones - I've not booted it for a while, due to being totally frustrated with it.

OFPDR is my game of the year partly because, believe it or not, I don't play very many games, so there's not a lot to choose from. I do try to play tactical shooters though. I like the open world and freedom of movement in the campaign missions, even if the time sensitive element takes some of this away. Sure, the AI isn't great - but it's also not terrible. It's average, IMO. But modern weapons, a huge campaign world, what's not to like? I don't really see the point of the complaints about how you can't fly helos etc in the campaign - you wouldn't be doing that anyway in the infantry. It'd be nice if you could choose your loadout, but I don't mind too much. And a random mission generator would be good, but again with the mission editor I can do some missions myself if I fancy - been getting my head around the ME, and I'm going to try to do some based in engagements from the Korean War. And yeah, for me this looks stunning - far better than Arma2, again on my PC. Maybe if BI had put Arma2 on the 360 as well, maybe then I'd have played it more if I could have done co-op very easily. As it is, it's pretty much just passed me by.

Each to their own though. Kudos to Codies for finishing this at all - 99% of other publishers would have canned it long ago. And yeah, there's more to come - WAY more to come. Again, Kudos to them for supporting it. One of the good things about working with studios is you hear a lot of the stuff that's not public knowledge. One of the bad things is you can't share it Codies are in this one for the long term though - it's going to get the kind of support other titles could only dream of.

So for me, there's no first person tactical shooter to touch it right now, in spite of its flaws.

cool... and I had no clue you were SimHQ's contact for Codemasters, I thought you worked as a job locator for game designers/artist etc etc... I got all my info to me from Guod... so was asking/verifying.

The campaign IMO is better in OFP DR then ArmA2's co-op campaign... (BTW that was patched and fixed, so the SP/co-op campaign should work for you, with 5 different endings based on performance.) but the MP fell flat on it's face...as of right now... compared to ArmA2's MP... which in all fairness has had 4 patches to get there.

Were cool, wasn't trying to "call you out", just verifying.

But that's the thing. Arma had 4 patches. Plus a previous game. This is Codies' first internal attempt at this. For a first attempt, for a studio with no history of this internally, it's excellent. And their plans for future support are truly outstanding - I've seen nothing like it with any other games. I doubt you'll be disappointed;)

I might look at Arma2 again. But I may simply buy the regular CD & English copy tomorrow. Bit sick of the whole translation thing after patching etc:)

OFPDR definitely could learn things from Arma, that's for sure. but then most games could learn from most others.

just bought it but my video card fragged itself so waiting for replacement to give it a go.

What impresses me from the comments above is a civilised discussion with no flames, what a pleasure.

I must admit I struggle to find the "groundbreaker" fo a tactical simulation of ground combat in the modern world.

We haven't yet had a true "homeworld" or "company of heroes" or "total war - rome" that trully shakes up the category. I use these ( and elite and TAW) as examples that made me go wow!!

Is this it, dont know , but suspect not from all the comments.

ARMA2 definitely looks better than OFPDR on maxed settings, better textures, better foliage, better shadows and more.

I acquired operation flashpoint dragon rising last week and I think it might be a really fun game for a console but was really disappointed that it was just a console game. I thought I was buying a Pc game. The lack of TrackIr support in the game along with no joystick support and no dedicated servers really turned me off. I did not really see the point in advertising the game with TrackIr support when it is used to a limited sense only in vehicles. Maybe after a couple of patches it might be worth looking into, personally I think Americans Army will do about the same thing without vehicles or the cost.

I bought Arma2 again this weekend - Steam version instead of the German download version. I'll give it another try.

I am not that impressed with OFPDR to be honest. I like the tactical orders option though the fact that you stop when doing it is annoying, it is however much more intuitive than Arma. AI aren't that bright as has been gone over before. Though some aspects of the movement (leap frogging) and response to orders is good. Lack of Track ir as infantry is also annoying. Bullet drop is also rather annoying seems way over done. The fact that AI can see you when you can't see them (them lying in the undergrowth), having said that their accuracy sucks so you don't need to worry about cover too often. No leaning. Artillery is nice feature and so is the performance in FPS. I like the thermals even if unrealistic. Is there a way to aim the under slung grenade launchers? Flying helos with a mouse sucks. Sounds like they took the radio work right out of generation Kill "we're oscar mike" but in general the sounds are excellent. It is a game of highs and lows with more lows than highs.

Fran, when you give A2 a second run trough, you should try and focus more on user created content (missions) as well as MP Coop. To me it sounds like you started off with a - back then unpatched - SP campaign and lost interest. For me, my system does not yet handle the larger A2 missions, so I'm editing my own. But that actually allowed me to explore it more toroughly. Same example why people like A2 (maybe more than DR)

1) A2 allows you to command a platoon and up of separate squads in a nice clean interface next to your normal squad control interface. So even for single player, you can get huge realistic engagements with armor, air and infantry all under your control.

2) A2 Multiplayer means a lot of people in different vehicles, on foot and in the air all working togehter on a huge battlefield.

3) A3 is in many parts very unscripted and dynamic, for example in the "Warfare" MP missions (which you can also play alone vs. the computer). You can wage war for the whole map with ever changing encounters and tactical situations. As good as DRs campaign seems to be, it's story-driven and of limited randomness, whereas A2 really made a lot of effort to get these dynamic elements right.

Just trying to help you enjoy the game, playing default SP campaign is not the true meat of it IMHO (albeit the patched campaign is pretty good now).

Well I already suspected that you must work with for Codemasters, with all that "PR" of yours. But that's not what I want to "discuss" here.

I'm posting here in order to "explain" you the "whole Arma2 thing".
I can explain this because (fortunally for me) a friend of mine bought OFP:DR (not so fortunate for him) and he borrowed me so I played a bit with OFP:DR so I can say that I know both ArmA2 and OFP:DR.
For starters, I want to say that I agree with Magnum, ArmA2 is so superior to OFP:DR that there is almost NO point in posting here what are the advantages of ArmA2 compared to OFP:DR since it would take many, many pages to describe those same advantages. But neverthless I'll post a few:

- Starting with the most obvious one - Graphics! The graphics in ArmA2 are definitly superior to the OFP:DR ones. Anyone who says otherwise must either be blind or suffers severelly from his/hers eyesight. Curiously the graphics in OFP:DR kinda reminds me of the graphics in M1 Tank Platoon 2, but of course with modern day technology. The graphics in OFP:DR lacks color and texture quality and even the 3D models look poorer when compared to ArmA2. Of course that OFP:DR runs faster (higher FPS) and it's setting can be maxed out even in "moderate" systems but that's IMO a "normal" thing since OFP:DR graphics are inferior to the ArmA2 ones.

- The AI in ArmA2 may have some quircks but it's light years ahead from the OFP:DR. For example, in OFP:DR the AI accuracy is so lame that if you keep sidewalking the enemy AI will never hit you! Hell, even if you don't move the enemy AI in OFP:DR rarelly hits you. And the rare times that the AI in OFP:DR hits you simply get a "wound" 99% of the times.
I think this video CLEARLY describes how lame and weak the enemy AI accuracy really is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB3beipbwx4&feature=player_embedded

- The fact that the OFP:DR AI is weak (specially it's accuracy) and the fact that you almost never die with one shot, in conjuction with Co-Op tether and tiny 2Km/2Km Team versus Team maps, makes both realism and freedom of movements (which IMO, both are closelly related) much inferior to ArmA2.

- ArmA2 allows you to mod almost every aspect of the game. Heck, some guys are even making the OFP:DR map (Skira island) for ArmA2!! Look here (nota that's still a work in progress):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wkvk0xiob0&feature=player_embedded

- Honestly the only thing that I liked in OFP:DR and which I prefered to ArmA2 but curiously I have NOT seen anyone talking about it (at least much) are the tanks, where in OFP:DR if you aim to a target and press the right mouse button the distance to target measure appears in the bottom and the tank gun automatically elevates so when you take a shot, the tank round will hit the target.
Unfortunally this GREAT feature has some bugs in where the right mouse button not always seems to work and it seems that there aren't any tank missions (where you play as a tanker) in the game (unless someone makes one in the editor).

That "PR" of mine? what exactly are you trying to say? Quite frankly, don't #%&*$# question my integrity. Get a bloody life mate, it's a game. You like one game, I like another. What is so messed up in your little life that you feel the need to try to persuade me that you're right and I must automatically be wrong? Jeez.

Cheers, will do. I tried it briefly at the weekend, seemed a bit better. But then NHL popped through my letter box and I've been playing that non stop:)

You might be right on the bit about getting off on a bad foot with it. I'm still really enjoying OFPDR though:)

I tried the ARMAII demo and didn't care for it at all.

I guess we should have our personal dislikes shoved down our noses here until we finally relent. That always works.

I tried the ARMA II demo, too. I didn't care for it, either. The sound is still not all that good and the AI is, by turns, as freakishly stupid or clairvoyant as ever.

I am not a real MP kind of guy. I am a SP kind of player, and I keep waiting for a decent shooter to come along that features good AI and that isn't Call of Duty-esque.

Question about this game: Does the SP campaign have ANY sort of replayability value?

pfunk

PFunk, just as in GR Original, OFP, and ArmA1, there are already a ton of SP (and MP) missions and snd several campaigns, add ons, new islands, tons of weapon mods, sound mods. Specials Forces, SEALs, you name it, if it isn't already over at Armaholic on their extensive download pages, it will be. So replayability is the hallmark of this one as well as the other harder core tac sims - thanks to the many devoted modders in these communities. IMHO, some of the user made campaigns and many of the missions are much better than the stock in most of the tacsims.

Pfunk, aside from the different difficulty levels, the SP campaign allows for trying different tactics during missions - provided you can stay within the time parameters. Plus the mission editor isn't too difficult to get your head around.

Give it a try if you can. I honestly doubt you'll be disappointed, especially as they're going to support it with a lot of DLC.

Honestly, the OFP:DR SP campaign could be that of any shallow first person shooter released these days and the annoying time parameters only make it worse. "Good work! Now go there and there with your 4 man team and wipe out that tank or we will lose the war!". There's virtually no plot, dialogue or feeling of being connected to theatre. Missions feel tightly scripted and you really have to mostly follow just one path so the time won't run out.
I found the ArmA 2 campaign far more atmospheric, free and whole island utilized well. Only if you like typical FPS shooters (I do sometimes) without any credible setup you might enjoy OFP:DR campaign.

I would not consider "few missions, more guns" a lot of DLC. That's been included in free patches on many games. Remains to be seen. And where's the demo btw? It was promised to be released before OFP:DR came out, then after release and now there's no word anywhere on it. Like they're scared for sales or something...

205,000 copies in its first week isn't bad. That doesn't include the PC version.

http://vgchartz.com/weekly.php?date=40097&boxartz=2#

From that reply of yours it seems that it's you that is having some sort of "personal problems"! I guess that both of your replies to me and your replies to Magnum's posts in this thread clearly shows that you are here in SimHQ with some sort of a Public Relations (PR) mission regarding this Operation Flashpoint:Dragon Rising game. You irritation (in the quoted post) to my posts seems to confirm your "PR agenda".

If you don't like that I or others reply or comment your posts, it's simple --> LEAVE THIS FORUM AND/OR DON'T POST!! I, as everyone else here have the right to comment other's posts and have the right to our own oppinions afterall that's what forums ARE FOR! Heck I even arrived here before you...

If you don't like my oppinions, that's not my problem and honestly I don't care

P.S.- I'm NOT your "mate"!!

(I love the smell of napalm in the morning)

In the meantime, I'll be confirming my rabies booster.

You basically accused Fran of being a PR person, then ragged on him for getting irrtated over your snide remarks.

I'd suggest that its you who needs to get some "perspective".

"Okay"?

in the immortal words of pat benatar: "love is a battlefield"

I have played a few Co-Op and MP missions lately. Connections are a lot better BTW!

I have enjoyed them totally. More tactical than I first thought and fun. I think this game will improve with a few patches and DLC.

NOT better than ArmA2, just different and fun. I see where many could enjoy BOTH games.

I like the stealth stuff, night missions, being sneaky.

Just need a few more friends to find (on line) and complete the entire campaign.

Well, this is my last post here in this thread - I won't follow this thread anymore even because I've already posted my oppinions about this OFP:DR but I just want to get this thing clear:
Yes, I said (or "accused" if you prefer) that FranMulhern was doing PR about OFP:DR/Codemasters here in the SimHQ forum and honestly I don't know where I can be wrong about this, even because FranMulhern clearly admited in this same thread that he works for Codemasters!! Look here:




So with all of his post and this lastest "quote" and simply don't know how can anyone not thing that Fran is here in a "PR mission" regarding OFP:DR. And for what it's worth I never said that this was a bad or a good thing either!

That all I have to say about this subject...

The size of this thread is interesting in itself. Committed group of players.

As has been said elsewhere, the two titles are different experiences. OFPDR strikes me like the original GR did: great fun, and much better, much more tactical, than the typical frag fest. So I bought it for both the 360 and PC. Enjoying it in both formats, but prefer the PC.

The ArmA/Arma2/VBS2 family of sims is a whole other animal. Best milsims I've ever played. I can lose hours on these sims; the scripting and editing power of the programs is unsurpassed.

Ricunes, I work "with" Codemasters, not for them. and I suspect you'll find I've been here since 1999.

At the end of the day, you dislike OFPDR - best leave it at that. For your own sanity, best not visit the forums anymore of a game you hate.