JRT,

Yes indeed. I remember that discussion which was countered by the observation that the bulk of the RN were tucked up in Scapa and would have taken days to get to the Channel area - by which time the Germans would have already established coastal bridgeheads and inland pockets of fallschirmjager or have experienced failure after being repulsed by RAF and Army opposition. Upon their eventual arrival, the RN role would have been to try and prevent supply by sea to the invasion forces, but they would have been subjected to the Luftwaffe onslaught which they had previously wisely avoided by being up in Scapa and not berthed along the south coast.

Luftwaffe air superiority was paramount of course before any cross-channel incursion whatever the chances of success and that was denied to them.

Gentlemen,

Another picture taken from among those which are already gathering dust in the fearful cellars of the HWH archive - so jealously guarded by our Chief Archivist, Scribe and Grand Librarian, JRT.

The complete destruction of recognizable shapes due to aerial collision is well represented here.
These bits and pieces are just a few fragments salvaged from what was left of two Lancasters which collided somewhere over Lincolnshire in March 1945. By that time, both RAF Bomber Command and the USAAF B17 and B24 wings had virtually run out of targets - but the relentless pounding went on right until the end, and so did the losses.

Yes, I'm a terrible slacker, I know

I vaguely remember the discussion about the RN being the real reason behind Operation Sealion never being launched. I think that another factor mentioned in that discussion was the lack of a proper invasion fleet on the Nazi side. The Nazi high command thought they would not have to invade England but could either achieve a seperate peace agreement, a capitulation or simply terrify the British into surrender. Winnie wouldn't hear any of it though.

Folks,

Dux:

Fat Hermann (otherwise AKA Myer) tried hard but could not make good on his optimistic promise to Hitler. That being to destroy the RAF, thus losing favor with both his troops and his Fuhrer in the bargain.

Two Lancs in pieces you say? One would indeed be hard pressed to build much of even one aircraft out of that pitiful lot.

MG:

Correct, Hitler had nothing on the order of our LSTs or other landing craft or troop transports much less those floating harbors that came in so handy off the storm tossed shores or Normandy.

No one should especially care however I have just begun to re-read the saga of Beowulf which, as everyone knows, is the oldest surviving epic in the English language. I believe that it was created around the tenth century. Dux was just a baby back then so even our most ancient member cannot confirm this.

My version attributes the original tale rather broadly to Scandinavia. To be more specific, I seem to remember from my own school days (which admittedly were much closer to the tenth century than is today) that Beowulf was from an original Danish tale. Is this so MG?

We will pause while our Danish friend ponders the question and perhaps rushes to his local library to search for an unknown copy of Beowulf in the original Danish, this done just to see if one of his own distant heroic relatives may be credited with composing the ancient epic. I for one would not be at all surprised if this were so.

Chaps,

Military historians remain divided as to whether or not an invasion would have succeeded and are certain to remain so. Having swept all before them the German armed forces were not lacking in confidence but even the most sanguine expectations would hardly have been allowed to overcome essential caution when preparing the invasion plans.

I recently saw a 1940 archive photograph of some invasion barges bearing letter and number codes at Wilhelmshaven. Half a dozen swallows don't make a summer but it shows that an invasion had been considered, planned and developed to some degree. The outcome depended on air superiority, the importance of which will not be understated in my forthcoming invasion scenario....sometime in the next fortnight.

Folks,

Dux:

Was he serious about Sealion? Had Hitler been successful in the East he would have come perhaps. Before that, and just after the debacle of France, maybe it was the real threat of Sealion that Hitler had relied upon to cow the British into suing for peace? He did not know them as well as he thought.

We've all watched those scenes in the BoB film as landing craft pass in a long line and Germany did have some landing craft but not nearly enough of them and I think they were rudimentary compared to that of the Allies on June the sixth. In spite of the advantages we had it was a near run thing with bad weather a huge threat second only to Festung Europa.

Gents,

JRT,

Yes, I'm sure he was initially serious - after taking full account of the scale of defeat suffered by the British Army in Norway, the Battle of France and Dunkirk and including our huge losses of materiel, he was quite justified in his thinking that we had become seriously weakened. Although he didn't know it, there were still people in the upper echelons of British society (the real power holders) who wished for a way out of the war even into 1941. Had he been more aware of that it may have given added impetus to the invasion planning. Much of what we had left became part of Churchill's gamble when he invested it in North Africa at the expense of home defence. This gamble duly paid off but Hitler's was fortunately never put into operation. Churchill's leadership was the prime mover in keeping the war going. A lesser leader would have capitulated to political pressure let alone that of the enemy.

Jens rightly points out that the threat of invasion coupled with the achieved collapse of Fighter Command in 10, 11 and most of 12 Group would probably have forced even the redoubtable and obdurate Churchill to the bargaining table.
Hitler didn't want or expect unconditional surrender. As I mentioned quite a few years ago - he just wanted Britain and the Commonwealth off his back so that he good get on with his great dream in the east.

Jolly Roger has kindly left an opening for me to add another post to my tally. Beowulf.

Quite before my time and I do not recall if the subject was even remotely on the curriculum when I alledgedly attended school. The origin of the tale certainly seems to be a matter so undocumented that any interesting and entertaining hypothesis could be put forward with a modicum of supporting evidence.

If the origin is indeed English (between 8th and 11th centuries) , how can it be that the Scandinavians are portrayed not as vile, foul-smelling Vikingr beasts, but rather are the heroes in the tale?

Gentlemen, after much thought and very little actual fact-finding I have come to the conclusion that it was written by a homesick Vikingr permanently relocated to England!

Supporting evidence: When on my travels to England I have been looking forward to speak the English language once again, the concierge at the hotel is always a b***** Dane! QED.

Bridging the gap most elegantly to return to our discussion of Hitler's intentions regarding the invasion of the Fortress Isle, I seem to remember having been informed somewhere that Hitler was quite an Anglophile, a secret admirer of England.

Furthermore there were family ties across the channel between the ruling classes of Germany and England. Until Hitler revealed the horror of his true intentions, the relations on the highest of levels, yes, even to the Royals were quite good.

Hitler's armies were totally dedicated to Blitzkrieg, conquering, and war on land and in the air. His U-boat fleet was initially quite small, and scheduled to be on a decent footing by 1943-45, according to plans hatched before Sept. 1939. Hitler did not want to wait that long before starting the war, as he would be too old by then. So I think it is fair to assume that by faulty logic or self-deceit, he had no intention of invading the British Isles until he was actually realizing, possibly as quite a shock that he'd conquered his way all the way to the channel; no trenches in France this time round.

Why did he stop at Dunkirk, and leave the British time to evacuate the men that were to form the backbone of the new British army?

Gents,

Jens, JRT,

Although Hitler had already voiced sentiments to the effect that he would make peace with Britain in a way that would leave honour to both sides, it does not necessarily follow that he would soften up the British via a restrained approach to the Dunkirk evacuation before the 'last appeal to reason'. It does not explain why the French and British had to fight a continuous rearguard action to make the evacuation possible, why so many troops were killed, injured, and made POW, nearly 70,000, why the RAF lost between 100 - 200 aircraft over Dunkirk or why so so many evacuation vessels including six RN destroyers and about 240 other boats were sunk.

If it was Hitler's intention to go easy on a toothless British Army he could have made their escape a great deal easier. No doubt he would have tried harder had he known how many of them would eventually confront German and Italian forces in Africa, Italy and Occupied Europe. Rommel would certainly have been victorious in the desert without our essential reinforcement of manpower even if the decision had been made to fight on. It was the golden opportunity, the realization of which would have in all probability put an end to all ideas and plans regarding the necessity of an invasion.

Folks,

Dux:

All this scholarly writing about Sealion has whetted my appetite for more. We should all turn back the yellowed, crumbling pages of HWH and read that monumental epic written by Zerosan2, the inspired title of which is... "SEALION". That opus, as far as I know, and I should know if anyone does, has to this date gone unsurpassed in both length and skill by anyone writing on this thread.

MG:

Your written English is excellent as all here would gladly attest. If you wish to practice your English speech, just pick up your phone and call Dux day or night. And don't forget to reverse the charges.

As a bonus, should you reach him in the middle of the night you may have the invaluable opportunity to learn some new and very colorful English metaphors. He is a master. It is his medium. He is said to work in obscenities like fine painters work in oils, especially so when awakened from a sound sleep.

Regardless of whether he was a Dane or not, I have always thought of you as a Beowulf kinda guy, my friend. Intrepid cycler, powerful beater of people's backs, heroic manipulator of spines, etc., etc.