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#2872289 - 10/03/09 02:20 AM what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this)
rootango Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/00
Posts: 825
Loc: everywhere
hi folks,

i have bought 5 or 6 joysticks over the years, a cheapo, then CH, and then a series of saiteks), and all the saiteks in partic wear out fast and after 12 months have heaps of play around the 0 axis points, others start spiking. build is also a bit flimsy and i snapped the odd trigger in the heat of the moment smile

so whats the best solution for long term flightsimmers that want a quality stick with good gimbal (is there even any that do?), and use something similar to to non contact (and so non wearing) HAL sensors ?

there is this new thrustmaster 16000 with hall sensors, but the russian guy that opened one up show the rest of the components inside are very cheapo and flimsy, buttons etc on the stick itself look toyish and flimsy

the Logitech 940 HOTAS kit seems to have a nice new stick with hall sensors (but it is force feedback ), but it is only sold as a combo kit and no standalone stick available

is there any other off the shelf stick that uses HAL sensors at the moment ? havnt seen any, but hope there is

a cougar perhaps ? i have looked at them over the years and the whole guts of these devices are pretty bad, you need to spend another 300$+ toget the thing working right, and even then there is a long list of modders and users for it that are still unhappy in the end and didnt think it was worth while. its not a road i'd like to take

CH models. afaik none of them use HAL sensors, and altho they are fairly strongly made and you can mod them to use HAL sensors i think the whole gimbal insides of it are plastic to, with the stick casing being plain plastic to and not anything particularly thrilling, it just doesnt seem worthwile going through the whole proces. with CH you either use it as is, which is reliable and good of the shelf, and leave the guts alone, or might as well buy something else from the start imo (multi button addon mods excepted)

i dont see many other choices on the market, is there ?

is there not some more professional grade joystick that some aircraft simulators might use ? is there any brands/options i have overlooked ?

i am not to bothered about force feedback etc, partic for sims like il2 where you might have long flights it is much easier to have light resistance and fine control on the stick.
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#2872536 - 10/03/09 12:56 PM Re: what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this) [Re: rootango]
Corsair8X Offline
Dagestan, Dover, DMZ
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 4834
Loc: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
So I'm confused. You think the CH are good and reliable, but...

I'm not sure that HAL sensors are the end-all-be-all. Pots have a bad reputation because most manufacturers are using cheap, crappy ones. You get a maker with a really good, quality pot and you can forget about HALS. I've had my CH since 2003. Not one spike, not one issue. Problem solved?
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#2872537 - 10/03/09 12:58 PM Re: what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this) [Re: rootango]
CyBerkut Offline
Former Quantum Mechanic
Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 1264
Loc: North of St. Petersburg
Which Saitek models have you used?

The X52 and X52Pro sticks have hal sensors on the X & Y axis. My X52 has held up much better than the X45 and X36 models that I've had in the past. I had problems with triggers breaking, as well as some other buttons, on the X45 and X36 models, but the X52 has been solid. Some folks don't like the centering spring arrangement on the X52/Pro, but it works for me. Keep the surfaces where the ring interfaces with the base clean, to keep wear and tear down.
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#2872677 - 10/03/09 05:18 PM Re: what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this) [Re: CyBerkut]
Sokol1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 1309
Loc: Internet
rotango,

As you noted us don't have sticks with quality (and price) of these racing sim accessories:

http://ecci6000.com/6000_wheel_01.htm
http://www.frex.com/gp/ffbwheel/

But someone would pay U$ 1000.00 for a HOTAS made by ECCI or FREX?

Quote:
CH models. i think the whole gimbal insides of it are plastic to, with the stick casing being plain plastic


The plastic bias: CH are made in plastic, but they use a sturdy plastic. I compare this to R/C servo accessories, like horns. Coincidentally the gimbal design used by CH is similar to these used in R/C transmitter sticks, ie Futaba.

Generally speaking i think they are the better option, mainly on the gimbal side.
It has its drawbacks such as lack of two stages on trigger (Cougar, X-52's and G940 have), pinkie lever (Cougar and incoming X65F have), hand rest with adjustable height (X52/X65F have) - as the primary HAT is difficult to reach by those who do not have big hands.

About metal. This picture is from Cougar guts:



This metal worth?

The incoming Saitek X65F supposedly will be all metal. Hopefully establish a new level of quality.

About HALL: currently stick sold with HALL sensor:
X-52 and X-52 PRO - individual HALL in X and Y axis - magnets moved whit gears - and resultant backslash...
T.16000M - HALL and X and Y axis - all in one type, so movements in X cause some movments in Y, and vice versa.
G940 - HALL in X and Y, type...?

HALL are better than god pot? Maybe or not, but the case is: any joystick manufacturer that made theirs sticks in China will use pots that cost U$ 9,95 (price that CH sold replacement one for their sticks)? Then is better that everyone use HALL, after all their are cheap actually.

G940 have HALL sensor, supposedly in X and Y axis, and in other axis? They use the same pots seen in 3DPRO?

You may have seen the Russian HOTAS project called Defender, with bearings in gimbal and MaRS (magnetoresistor) instead pots or HALL, but it seems that the market is not favorable ...

Edit - You have some another specific (and priced) options, like:
Tarmac Aces universal base: metal, bearings, damper instead springs, HALL sensro, BU0836 eletronics...
Or these german made - bearins, high quality pots:
http://www.simw.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=dsp_product_details&pid=2014
Or these:
http://www.flightlink.com/hardware/rotorwing/gs3plus.html
Think these match ECCI or Frex level, but you don't find in Walmart...

Sokol1





Edited by Sokol1 (10/03/09 05:28 PM)

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#2872762 - 10/03/09 07:47 PM Re: what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this) [Re: Sokol1]
hannibal Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 398
u want hall effect cheap?
go thrustmaster T.16000M (50$)

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#2873329 - 10/04/09 10:38 PM Re: what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this) [Re: hannibal]
PropNut Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 787
Loc: Coral, Michigan
The controller has alot to do with how good the joystick is also. I have not had any issues at all since I switched to a Leo Bodnar BUO83X controller, I never realized how much the controller mattered before...I thought any issues I had was with the pots.
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#2873644 - 10/05/09 11:31 AM Re: what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this) [Re: PropNut]
Sokol1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 1309
Loc: Internet
Difference in Stability Test of cheap COTS stick with 8 bits controller and one with MJOY DIY (BU0836 is superior, has better filters) 10 bits and HALL sensor:



How more close of a sinusoidal graph, better.

Sokol1

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#2874793 - 10/07/09 08:30 AM Re: what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this) [Re: Sokol1]
Proost Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 79
X52 precision:


Thrustmaster 16000M precision:

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#2876254 - 10/09/09 04:31 AM Re: what current good joysticks have HAL sensors and good gimbals (or best bang per $ mod to create this) [Re: Proost]
Proost Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 79
Btw I got the Thrustmaster 16000M, it's very precise, it lays nice in your hand but the throttle is on a bad position and just sucks basicly. Build quality is ok, feels sturdy.
It got a bit more resistance then other joysticks (like x52, cyborg or evo) but this is good for being more precise.

If you get this joystick be sure to get a seperate throttle (x-52 or Saitek Pro Flight Throttle for example) and some rudder pedals..
There is a twist rudder on the Thrustmaster but it goes a bit fast, hard to make subtle rudder movements.

So the stick is great, everything else is ''so, so''.


Edited by Proost (10/09/09 04:31 AM)

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