I got this mail today. It gives a bit more info on this new hotas.
Not sure if I can wait for this or go for the G940.

Not too keen on the twist rudder though. Hopefully there is a lock for it if you have rudder pedals.

http://www.flightstore.co.uk/prod/SAIX65F/DEPT-FSIM/Y3/

Probably there is a lock, but good point.

Wish they had kept the buttons from the X52.... those are really handy.

Ripcord

Very interesting... Input is force sensitive.

looks nice.

Force Sensitive? I hope thats wrong because the only relevant aircraft with accompanying sim is Falcon. I sure hope its still a FFB stick, if it isn't it just shows that Saitek is missing the point and not listening. That would be too bad because I'm really looking for this to be a quality alternative to the logitech stick. I like the logi but I dont need pedals and the centering issues kind of turn me away at least for the moment. The real deal breaker with the logi is the pedals, I don't need them, they're too narrow (compared with my saiteks) and you can't use them as a standalone product. If I could use the rudders by themselves though it would be good enough. I guess I don't want to be forced to use a product I don't like because of proprietary reasons.

If stick, throttle and pedal appear individually in Windows
is probably that each have individual circuit...
Probably linked to an internal USB HUB in throttle...

Sokol1

Yeah I'm not sure what one of the devices attaches to the PC (I think its the stick unit) but if I have a set of rudder pedals I don't need and can't use its an instant deal breaker. I know I could make them work as a standalone system, but whats the point? Logitech knows that customers would buy either HOTAS or rudder separately if they had the choice and its a move to force you to buy it all. I dont mind that at all it makes sense from their standpoint, I just would like to use at least the rudder pedals stand alone without having to modify them with controller card.

Why couldn't the devices all attach to one location using USB cables? Making them independent, at least the rudder pedals, because just like CH pedals it can be a deal breaker for many simmers.

Based on their description it sounds like it works exactly like an F-16 stick. Also based on their description I would say that the stick itself does not twist (just as it does not move in pitch and roll) but rather senses torsional forces. Now, that latter is a good thing for those of you that don't want it to twist - it never does. You can likely turn off the response to twisting in the software.

Wow, looks very cool.

I fly mainly IL2, having a jet fighter joystick that doesn't move just doesn't seem right. But I will wait for this to come out to make a decision.

Surely it will move, but you adjust how much force the stick gives, which is very nice IMO.
I think this will be my next new stick.

Don't confuse a force stick with a force feedback stick.

This is a force mod for the Cougar: http://www.realsimulator.com/html/fssb.html

Damn Saitek. I was looking forward to this stick

Yea I know, but you can adjust how much resistance the stick gives (stifness).

Sorry bud - the physical resistance (stiffness) in a force stick doesn't change.

From the linky: "It replaces the Cougar's original gimbal system and pots with a completely different system that uses force sensors to measure the displacement of the joystick. The joystick barely moves replicating the displacement values of the real F-16 side stick controller. Similarly, the forces for maximum displacement are replicated although these can be reduced to suit personal preferences."

You can adjust the amount of force necessary to make a certain input, but the feel of the stick in your hand remains constant.

~S~

It will not - at least not more than a few degrees. They are trying to make it mimic the F-16 stick in operation - and that's if they make it move at all. There is no tension to adjust (at least not based on what I read from that site). It will essentially be there and you will apply forces against an essentially immovable object. It will measure the amount of pressure that it senses and will translate that into movement.

Well could be but I still have doubts.
If so, since I play wwI/II sims mostly, this stick (for me) doesn't look so interesting then.

Looking at the picture it looks there is room where the stick moves, also the rudder (with long arrows (why even call it twist rudder then?).

But again if so, not interested

What amazes me is that they got a patent on something the F-16 has been using for 20+ years...

g.

Patent could be simply on the way they do it. I suspect that the F-16 method is expensive. Maybe they found a cheaper way of doing it?

I must agree with Corsair here. It will not move at all and all input is based on the force applied to it which in turn makes a very sturdy mount necessary not to topple it over.

It is basically what one of the more expensive mods for the cougar does, if Im not completely wrong.

regards

I have the FSSB R1 mod for my Cougar and you are correct in saying the stick doesn't move. It takes a bit of stick time to get use to it but it will grow on you.

I do not like it as much as a regular stick especially for WW2 and Heli flying, when you add in FF there is no comparison.

I'm shocked seeing this news because I bought cougar just few weeks ago, thinking for R1 mod in the near future.
So, if the new saitek stick allows us to move it slightly, the action of it has more realism than R1 mod have?

I have the Cougar modded with FSSB, and it turned out to be a problem in some sims. It's great for jet flying, but I'd prefer a G940 for Helos and WW2.

OTOH I can't quite believe Saitek is going that route in a mainstream product. It just doesn't make sense.

The components and finish on the stick look great in the end.

Well, it would not be hard to just put a biggish spring above or under the sensor and arrange a mechanical lock to switch between sprung or solid. If the sensor is sensitive enough it will directly translate the spring deflection into a force

As an FCC-modded Cougar owner who also has IL-2, take my word for it-you will HATE it for prop jobs.

Your hand will be sore, you won't be able to hold your ailerons and elevators steady or even make small tweaks easily, and it's just totally the wrong feel.

I actually do enjoy this Cougar mod, but mostly when I'm playing Falcon 4.0: Allied Force, or maybe a space combat game or something that doesn't require really twitchy input and significant, constant directional changes.

Another result is that I don't play IL-2 much now because I don't have any satisfactory deflecting sticks. I have a Logitech WingMan Strike Force 3D, but I have to alter the way the pots connect to the gimbals to work around some horrible engineering (moving the stick in only one axis still induces play in the pot for the other axis) and have not yet sourced a small metal rod and some suitable linkages for the mod project yet.

Ideally, I'd just get a Logitech G940 and pair it with the Cougar (or possibly replace the Cougar with the X65F altogether, depending on Saitek's execution), but I can't afford that.

Ditto here. I bought a Cougar some months ago (the newer vesion with plastic keys, unfortunatelly) and haven't touched it because it felt rather stiff and imprecise to handle without some mods. FS mods seemed perfect for it.

I planned on getting the X65 (vs the 940) as an FF stick because I prefer it's looks and material (Logitech design and plastics and keys seem rather sterile, kinda like CH products which is why I never considered getting those CH sticks). But, now it turns out that the X65 is an FS stick, which would mean I'd get it and the 940 and then some other mod for the Couger (too bad Evenstrain is not available any more) which doesn't make sense (I have the X36 USB in good condition plus the X52 and not much to use even those two ), not to mention the money required for such a feat.

So, maybe an FF mod for the X65 would be the solution?