Playing this one a fair bit lately and having a lot of frustration getting stuck on telegraph poles,trees and shrubs.I can vaguely remember an ini edit somewhere..Anyone got the fix?

I assume you are playing some mod that is using the pex engine.

The real fix is to adjust the object attributes. There is now a differance between a tree,stone and tree,soft object (there are multiple physics modeling possabilities). Unfortunatly, the modders of the mod most want to play seem to expect me to make all the changes for them an that will never happen.

pex takes into account the mass and speed of your vehicle when you collide with an object. PE did not, so the modders used very strong attributes for every thing. The smallest tree is the next to strongest object in Ostpak for PESE. When playing Bob's pe3, try hitting the smallest tree at 10 KPH vs full speed in a TigerI. The speed vs mass fromula is one I am still willing to work on, same goes for the drift of the shell.

The pex 16.5 beta was released to show the modders how we had change the logic and physics engine from PE 1.2. Unfortunatly the only thing some modders cared to notice was how we broke the gameplay flow of PE.

pex was never ready for release as more then a beta for modders. The last publicly released version of the engine, 16.10e, addressed almost all playability issues not associated with the need to change object attributes needed for physics and AI pathfinding. You can find that by applying the last Goptics4 mod over Bob's pe3 (the file dll properties show version 16.10f). there is a lot more to vent, but you don't want to hear it.

Back to your question!!!

In AISettings.ini is the entry Platooncollision=1 will prevent AI platoons from moving through lower numbered platoons during most move orders. Helpfull in properly scripting an advance. brings movement to a halt when the superior platoon become stuck.

UnitCollision=0 means the AI will move through another unit and ignore unit/unit collision.

Those are the ones you think you remember as ini entries.

Object collision is hard coded into the engine as a ratio of /unitdata/HitTable.csv entries. If your playing the 16.5 mod I am happy to discuss and change things if we agree it is more realisitic. The unreleased, current version even compares tree impact for height of impact vs AP and HE round. If your talking about pe3, good luck. I will not make for them, I will only help them understand how the data is used by PE, PESE, PEX.

I'm getting back into PE myself and amazed at the amount of work that has gone into it. This is a great sim with great atmosphere. Definitely still enjoyable after all these years.


Edit: Wow, just added the OSTpack and PE3 mods! Lots of new features in PE3 especially like the fact that the shells now have time of flight. New tank models and the details are wonderful. Visibility set to max really makes those Russian steppes look creepy and dangerous. And also forgot that it can handle antialiasing and aniso filtering, got everything on max at 1280x960 and runs great!

Absolutely! I keep mine installed and "tuned" with the great work of you creative modders. It's still a great sim that runs well, looks fine, and has tons of good missions.

Hi Brit.Here,s what I,m running..

Spitty,
The core of the simulation side of the engine is DesertAI.dll, RRHal.dll, MyMenu.exe, and Direct3D.dll.

The last version of optics is newer then scenerios2009.

I never looked at the MvR version for pe3.

You will probably find the fiewest mod inconsistencies if you enable optics mod last. EXCEPT that optics mod contains unit and gun files that are specific to pe3 and Ostpak.

Making Torch work properly would consist of using the latest core files, along with modifying the MvR csv files to include any new data added to the csv files. ie compare the same named files in Optics with those in MvRTorchPE3. If Bob did it correctly, there will be little or nothing to fix except to add the latest core files and cockpit optics files.

I recently added Optics4 and started getting rrhal.dll errors just after I left the HQ screen.

I too have Ostpack, PE3, Scenarios2009, then Optics4 in that order.

The reason I loaded Optics4 was because some German tanks didn't have any numbers on the optical view.

Most people have to run panzer_elite.exe in windows 98 compatability mode.

re download the optics4 mod.
http://pex.panzerelitemods.com/beta/GopticsV4.exe
I fixed an number of things for Henny after Bob and I split again.
You can tell if you have the later version as the installer has the 30th Corps icon and not the 2ndss icon.

Scenerios2009 has newer files then the 2ss iconed one, and older files then the 30th iconed one.
The later was made for a few individuals after support for pe3 was dropped.

If your still having problems PM me and we will try the current alpha.

Hi Aldo - I am hoping you can clear up something confusing me about PE-X and PE 3. I realize that you call PE-X more of an aid for modders, but that the 16.2beta version is still available to the public. Also, PE3 uses (some?) of PE-X's improvements. But PE-X appears to be much larger than the PE 3 file. So - is there any advantage or reason for using an install modified with PE-X, rather than PE3? Are there significant differences?

Regardless, thanks for all your dedication and work in keeping PE alive and well.

PE-X is a continuing effort to update and improve the Panzer Elite game engine. The project was started by members of the Brit44 mod. PE-X version 5.0 would have been the same as Brit44 version 1.05, had we continued to release it as the Brit44 mod. Infact, we did not remane it to PE-X until version 10.0. With version 16.2 we thought it was stabel enough for a public beta (boy were we wrong). Because of the new features, some data files from PE need bits added to them (caliber of the gun to the guns csv for example). This means a mod had to be addapted to use the new engine. PE-X is the complete Brit44 Mod and not just the necessary upates for a mod, thus it's size. Major Magee updated all of his mods, so all that is necessary to play them with the 16.10 version of the game engine is to replace the game engine files.

Even though there was a project to update Ostpack to PE-X standards, BobR decided to mash all of the mods (including PE-X) into one package and call it PE3 (3 mods in one). The engine simply was not ready for that, but "You can't stop me" was the reply I got when I told him not to do it.

The 16.10af version of the game engine addresses most of the problems not caused by the need for updated data files.

A few examples of files that need updating are the landscape and object attributes. The Ostpak trees are all boucage attributes so the AI finds it overly difficult to find a valid path. Ostpak used lake tiles to make some rivers. The PE-X AI will not drive into a lake, even if the sinking and breaking attributes are not high enough to disable the unit. I did make it so that when the players platoon is in column formation and in column position, path finding will ignore everything except object collision.

PE-X development has gone back to a private forum. The latest code includes support for 3D tracks (early proof of concept image http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/ae315e37e15a83f4363b571293f44622f454c46.jpg). The current project is adding functional 3D bridges. The AI pathfinder crossed the bridge for the first time last night. The next step is to determine the best way for the landscape artist to be able to position the bridge above the surface of the water. Once I have a screen of the AI crossing an elevated bridge, I will post it, but the airport starts sound improvements to my home next week

I hope that clears up a few things for you. It is a USA holiday this weekend and I have a number of PWCs, ATVs and motorcycles to repair before then, so I'm not sure how much time I will have for posting the rest of this week.

Thanks Aldo - that is some excellent background. And good luck with the repairs, hope you can enjoy a fine holiday.

Can I presume from your post that there are some good reasons to consider two installs of PESE: one for the PE3 version, and a separate one for the last public beta (I am not sure whether that is the af version you referenced above)? But don't try and mix the two in one install?

Well if there's a better game to be had by doing individual installs of Ost and PEX, then I'd like to know how to do it. Right now I'm running the standard 3 mods in one put together by Bob. But it has a few issues with optics. I've used the Goptics4 and have rrhal.dll errors. If I get rid of the dll files in the mod/optics dir, then the game is way too fast, turret speed is super fast.

So right now I'm using the 3-in one and goptics version 2 which seems to work ok.

Thanks T - I may have to try that approach. Wanting the full set of East Front scenarios, I went a different path and have run into trouble, perhaps the Single Scenario Lock?

Bought the GOG dl version of the PESE and made a fresh install, different computer.
Patched, tested, worked.
Launched OstPak Complete, then Mod Enabled it, game launched, but selecting Single Scenario, just get hour glass and hang.
Launched the OP2008 update for OP, enabled it - test results in same hang for SS.

Confirmed that both Instant Action and first Campaign mission run normally.

Any ideas? Advice on fixing? I already tried changing the dates in the US and German unlock scenario files to later ones suggested in the PEDG forum. Unistalled, cleaned registry, reinstalled - same result, no joy.

Eugine,
That is the Single Scenerio lock. If you tried the dates in this thread http://pedg.yuku.com/topic/1965 , then try other years. You can also try removing one or two scenerios from the scenerios folder (place them in a new folder for easy swapping). There is a detailed text file about the SSlock somewhere in your PE after you install Ostpak.

Multiple installs of PE are easy. Install PE version 1.2, find the folder that contains panzer_elite.exe and make a copy of the folder. Rename it to something that does not start with the same name (ie OstpackPE not PEOstpak if you installed PE to a folder called PE). Which ever folder is named the same as what you installed pe as will run. If you are in doubt where your PE is installed at, check the properties of your desktop shortcut.

TT,
you have a PM

Thanks, Aldo - I will try more times. I did change the extension name of a scenario to .bak - no soap. Also did try a number of different years also. But perhaps I need to do that for both us and german scn's untl the right combination? I did copy the two .scn's to the base PE scenario folder, as one of the faq's at PEDG suggested - and made the changes in the files in that location.

Given the roadblock, will do as you suggest for multiple installs. Similar to the old Falcon 4 trick for the same purpose. Have a good Labor Day weekend!

When you attempt to build the PE code in the latest compilers, it complains alot about the way PE reads strings of text. That is the SSlock, the code gets lost in an endless C++ search string. It is also why changing file names at the end of the file do not always work.

It may need more then one, but the optimal thing to do is move files out of the scenerios folder until single scenerio button works for you. Sort by name and remove all files that start with the same scenerio name.

Thanks for all your time, Aldo. I realize you are busy before the weekend. Installed fresh on a more modern core duo computer. Although initially getting the SS Lock, using the date adjustment approach ultimately worked. Runs fine again, so far as I can tell tonight. Also, copied and stashed a stock install so I can use it for re-copying, renaming, and modding an alternate non-PE3 version as suggested.

For the original computer, I may have to resort to the scenario sort/delete approach.

TerribleT - Ostpak, Scenarios 2009, MvRTorch and BritPak enabled and appear to work, which has added a lot more scenarios (once past the SLock hurdle!).

I enabled PE-X 16.5 by itself for a test drive. I must say, maybe it was just the mission design, but the experience was more involving than the Ostpak+PE3 mods. Infantry were more aggressive, and my wingmen were able to actually follow me and not get hung up. So much more was going on too, combat was really involved.

Now I understand that PE3 uses a build of 16.10ae, but did Bob leave some things out? Even little things like the sound of running over trees is gone in PE3.

The only thing no campaign and fewer missions. I tried to find the Normandy Graphics Pack but its nowhere to be found.

16.5 has the NGP landscapes, but you are right, it seems to have been frogotten from the archived material that is on the server.

The main differance between pe3 and 16.5 (when both are using the same version of the game engine) is the object attributes.

Ok on the NGP landscapes in PEX.

I dunno, I've played PEX straight, and then with the Torch PE-X mod, and in both cases the scencarios are exciting with lots to look out for. Enemy bazooka teams, infantry is very aggressive, you always have to keep looking over your shoulder. I just wish there were more stock Normandy scenarios for PE-X.

But with OstPak + PE3, the scenarios seem dead in comparison. Something is really missing. Is this because it comes down to scenario design? Maybe its just my imagination, but AT-guns seem to just sit still until you fire on them, infantry the same thing. And I haven't run across very many anti-tank infantry teams in Ost + PE3. Great mod with all the new tanks and early war missions, but it loses atmosphere when compared to PE-X by itself...

The differences sound quite distinctive and remind me of the difference between the Falcon 4 and the IL6 worlds - one is alive, the other feels empty to me.

I will try the pure PEX install this evening with any luck; already ran a couple scenarios for PE3/OP last night - and confirm the hung-up wingmen syndrome.

PESE + PEX_16.5 installed, enabled. Runs fine first time out. A few questions:

1. OK to install the three Seamless scenery mods (Normandy, Italy, Desert)?

2. OK to install any other scenarios, and if so, any suggestions on which ones and/or limitations?

3. No campaign possible/approved/recommended?

3. No other mods to be installed/enabled with current public PEX? Or are any safe/approved for it?

the landlord will not be attending the pre construction walk through in the morning, so I can stop cleaning this house

most stable install of the PEX engine, publicly found on the web. (my opinion)
Install PE (either original PE or PESE)
Run the PE 1.2 patch (just to be safe)
If you have the hard drive space, save a copy of this install (handy for trying even the oldest mods)
Install pex 16.5
Add everything from the last GopticsV4 except
///
settings.ini
and
Gunits.csv
///
That gives you the best example of what the engine can now do.
The alpha testers then add the August files


1 Yes, the result will be that the landscape used will be the one included in the mod. No game crash should occur. AI pathfinding could be effected.

2 PE and PEX is limited by the csv files containing the units wanted by the scenerio. If a unit type is not found in the units csv, a default is used (different for all PE mods). PEX expands on a lot of AI Wings was working on when they were forced to ship the product. The limitations of scenerio scripting are specific to every version of PE. Limitations That's a book worth if you include every mod ever made.

3 The short Normandy campaign it the only one with landscape objects that should work properly.

All mods are safe. Unfortunatly, they can cause the PESE mod enabler to cause you problems (there is another book to type lol). The most common is that you can not properly dissable any mod after you have hosted a MP game unless you delete the MPS file from PE's scenerio folder. If the MPS file is also in the pe/mods/modname/modname folders, it will not crash.

Hope that helps

Thanks Aldo. I'll give that a try.

I find it strange that a mod like Goptics does more than just add new optics. I think that is part of the problem with some mods, they alter things they shouldn't.

Optics was never intended to be a mod per say, Optics was a showcase for people using pe3 who wanted/needed to see the latest changes to the game engine and my other work. To create a representation of how the Zeiss optics work, a lot of code had to be added to PE.

If you want the campaign button back, remove mainmenu.men from the mod. We removed that button because only the short Normandy campaign will work.

All up and running well with new installs - a PE3 with its "standard" set of mods for OP and the rest; a "pure" PE-X install with no other mods. Both running at 1920 rez with no CTD's, freezes, etc. Campaign button restored in PE-X. Thanks for all the assistance, Aldo.

Eugene add in GopticsV4. If you get a crash, Aldo sent me 4 of the core files from a version of 16.10 that makes it work.

Thanks, TerribleT. Good to hear. Remind me what Goptics adds/fixes?

Goptics adds more realistic German optics and the code changes from last spring that were required for that. If you play as Allied, the bug fixes are minimal.

Thanks guys. So far, all is well and running smoothly. Of course a finer rez mesh would be a fabuous improvement - to smooth those unrealistic sharp angles in rough terrain. But I'm not complaining. Just dreaming.

Has anyone tried using ENB Series mod on Panzer Elite? Fella on youtube says it works. I've never tried using one before and not sure how to go about it. Would love to add some new lighting effects to PE.

Coding 3D bridges is proving more problematic then I first thought, but it's making progress.
http://www.pex.panzerelitemods.com/beta/images/bridge.avi

Good luck on this, Aldo. Looks promising. When you have the time, tell me more about the challenge of using a finer terrain mesh resolution in PE. What a difference that would make!

But I think, as is, you would always "win" due to the enemy panicking and fleeing the battlefield when they see your tanks levitating, on the attack...

PE uses a common erra 2.5 meter grid system with whole numbers. You can do it finer, but not with the 65536 system that PE is done on. Teut always said convert to float.

as to the rest, it's either funny or sad. no enemy has ever survived my levitating to the attack.

I believe I have time now. PE uses various terrain resolutions.

Which aspect of simulating terrain and what resolution would you like to discuss

Last month, we did find the bug where spotting calculated landscape height every 40 meters rather then every Edit: 2.5 not .25 meters.

Thanks, Aldo - nice to see you. I had a couple of more immediate thoughts or questions. The very sharp changes in the terrain height is the specific issue, I'm not sure of the technical term for these, but as a vehicle is moving along and encounters a distinct change in the height of the surrounding terrain or a road, the gradient is very sharp. The impact raises the vehicle and can expose the belly, slow forward progress, and raise one's view forward to a significantly greater degree than I believe is realistic.

So I was wondering whether the resolution could be made finer, thus smoothing these recurring encounters. I believe you replied above that this cannot be done with the "65536 system that PE is done on," and also referred to converting to "float."

Does the former reference to 65536 mean there is no practical way to improve the terrain resolution(leaving aside theoretical possibilities that would involve tons of money, programmers...building an entirely new sim)?

Is "float" more of an inside joke, or does it refer to an alternative terrain system?

I'm asking about this because to a person much less familiar with PE than you and your compatriots that have worked hard on modding and improving PE over the years, but appreciative of sims such as this and more modern ones, PE has moved quite far down the road from its creation...finer resolution of the terrain not just for the sake of appearances of the terrain, in terms of the eye candy perspective, but the practical impact on vehicle movement, employment, exposure and so forth to me would be a major step forward.

But if practically speaking, this is impossible, that would be good to know also.

Regardless, PE remains an excellent WWII armor sim and I thank you and the others for the many upgrades and improvements that make it so.

Float is not an inside joke. It is a referance between intiger math and decimal math. Older computers do not like decimal math (called floating point math). The fastes math for a computer is bit shifting, a power of 2 math. 1 << 16 = 65536 (one shifted up 16 times. That is the math PE uses.

With the pentium chip and above it would be faster to use decimal math, rather then "shift" back and forth as much as we do. This would require rewriting the entire rendering system are require an understanding of code that I am just now getting up to. But that is not the question.

PE's world is a 10 x 10 meter world. Elevation of the map is determined by a 256 color grey scale image. Each color is 10 meters differance. These values are then "shifted up" 16 times. This gives us a precision of roughly 1.5 mm ( 10/6553.6 = .00152588 ) and a maximum measurement of 655.36 Kilometers. Everything seems problem free so far.

The PE landscape has 4 levels of detail.

The 10x10 grid are used for PE's LOD3 and LOD4. LOD3 uses a 16x16 pixal texture where LOD4 uses a single color. LOD2 splits the grid into four 5 meter grids and applies a 32x32 pixal texture. LOD1 splits the grid into sixteen 2.5 meter grids and applies a 64x64 pixal texture.

2.5 meters is the smallest unit of measure for the landscape mesh

When PE renders the landscape mesh, the height of each poly is compared to the height of those to it's left, right, up and down. An average is then used. If you have very little or very linier elevation change you will get a visual step.

Including the verticies at the 45s (upper left, etc) would help this smoothing. Increasing the range from one vertex to two would also help. The questons with both of those approaches is how much of an impact would that have on FPS and would it make the landscape too smooth.

PE does give the landscape maker two tools to deal with this problem. The first is the landscape texture editor. This tool has the ability to adjust the landscape height inside the 10x10 grid. In the original PE landscapes that most complain are unnaturaly rough, a random height change was used on nearly all textures. The second tool is the map generator inside of the scenerio editor. This tool is used to place landscape textures based on the slope of the landscape. The landscape creator can assign 3 slope ranges and up to 5 textures to use within those ranges. It is also possable to create special landscape tiles that overlay the landscape tile to modify a single 10x10 grid.

I have never seen a scenerio that uses the landscape editing potential of PE to is fullest.

Sorry for the delay. I was watching WW2 in HD on the history chanel

Hope you don't feel like this now

Hey, Aldo - that series looks terrific. Enjoy it.
And thanks.