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#2847895 - 08/25/09 11:15 AM Re: Pilot Training ** [Re: PanzerMeyer]
Sim Online   cool
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Registered: 09/18/01
Posts: 8549
Loc: Vegas
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Sim
It's based on performance right now and need of AF.


So what you're saying is that you may end up flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh*t out of Hong Kong? biggrin


Hong Kong? Two engines? Cargo? I don't mind.

UAV is the worst nightmare.

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#2847957 - 08/25/09 12:42 PM Re: Pilot Training [Re: PanzerMeyer]
semmern Offline
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Registered: 03/19/01
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Sim
It's based on performance right now and need of AF.


So what you're saying is that you may end up flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh*t out of Hong Kong? biggrin


Only if his ego starts writing checks his body can't cash wink
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#2847992 - 08/25/09 02:03 PM Re: Pilot Training [Re: Sim]
ripper998 Offline
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Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 1011
Loc: San Antonio, Tx
Originally Posted By: Sim
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Sim
It's based on performance right now and need of AF.


So what you're saying is that you may end up flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh*t out of Hong Kong? biggrin


Hong Kong? Two engines? Cargo? I don't mind.

UAV is the worst nightmare.


I read an article this month about how the AF is way way under its quota for UAV pilots. So much so, that people that arent in rated positions but have a few years of air force experience are being trained to be UAV pilots and are getting a crash course. I think though it the beta training program works out, a lot of older AF officers will want to do that as they could goto war during the day and tuck in their children at night. Here is a link to the article.

http://www.popsci.com/drones

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#2848040 - 08/25/09 03:01 PM Re: Pilot Training [Re: ripper998]
FastCargo Online   mad
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Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1948
Well Sim, if you're lucky, you won't have to worry about it.

One of the reasons supposely stated in making a UAV track was to build experience in operations. Make 'old heads' if you will in pilots who have been in UAVs from the time they graduated pilot training. Not so much in how to 'fly' the thing, but how to employ it, tactics, etc.

The manning issue was so bad for a while that the USAF was taking folks with less than 200 hours in their MWS and pulling them into UAVs with no intention of going back to your MWS.

The USAF for a while was also wanting pilots because of what the article says, that sort of airsense you get from operating an aircraft over time. Also, there are some SIGNIFICANT issues with operating UAVs in controlled airspace...stuff that makes me even more leery of EVER setting pilotless aircraft anywhere near me, no matter what Beach says. However, this flies in the face of using 200 hour brand new 2Lts with no real time to operate UAVs.

The USAF has finally had reality give them a slap in the face to learn that A) You don't need real pilots to operate UAVs if you keep the UAVs to a controlled enviroment and B) No real pilot wants to fly UAVs unless they have to for other reasons. There was an especially dishearning incident where a T-38 track student, got a UAV assignment on drop night and promptly SIEed from training. Think about that a minute...less than 2 weeks from graduation, all his checkrides complete and he quits after a YEAR of some of the hardest training you will ever go through.

There is a serious move afoot to revamp USAF pilot training because of the aforementioned UAV manning (pulling it out of traditional pilot training and make a totally separate track) and because the advanced trainers are not getting any younger. The T-38C is 50 (yes FIFTY) years old and the T-1A is wearing out faster than anticipated (go figure, take a bizjet and smash it repeatedly on the runway might do that). The serious considerations include getting rid of the dual track system (in other words EVERYONE goes through T-38s/T-X again), and possibly, lengthing the T-6 syllabus and shorten the advanced syllabus to more specific options.

Personally, I have no problem flying a UAV for a single tour...almost all pilots now have a tour outside their MWS, no matter if it's being a staff weenie, a 'white jet' instructor, play Army for a while, etc. You simply make it another alpha tour and call it good. But having a permanent UAV track as a pilot? Pfffft...please.

FC
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#2848048 - 08/25/09 03:11 PM Re: Pilot Training [Re: FastCargo]
gallycadet Offline
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Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: New Mexico
Man, I thought the comic Air Force Blues was kidding about how much yawl hated the idea of flying UAV's. Guess not.
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#2848117 - 08/25/09 04:58 PM Re: Pilot Training [Re: gallycadet]
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Registered: 09/18/01
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Yeah, after me there was IFS class with beta testing none-rated dudes going straight do UAV. I recall two washed out while flying DA-20C. Not sure what happened after program but I do not hear any more are going through.

Right now there is only one guy that wouldn't mind going UAVs in my class. And it seems "once you go UAV, you can't come back".

Bah.

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#2848200 - 08/25/09 07:36 PM Re: Pilot Training [Re: Sim]
tcable Offline
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Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 121
Loc: Taunton, MA, USA
Honestly I'm fascinated with what you can tell us about training.

I'm a listless sim pilot these days, but have landed on some big runways IRL.

I always loved flying int old SAC bases in a 172. I could land across some of those runways smile It's funny seeing Cessnas sitting in the old alert shelters.

The Military was never for me- bad eyes frown Thanks Mom & Dad for those.

That and all of the pilot slots when I was 21 were taken up by Academy grads. All of my ROTC buddies ended up as missileers for the short commit.

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#2848250 - 08/25/09 09:19 PM Re: Pilot Training [Re: Sim]
FastCargo Online   mad
Member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1948
Originally Posted By: Sim
And it seems "once you go UAV, you can't come back".


As far as I know, that is still correct.

Don't get me wrong, UAVs are increasingly important, especially in COIN ops.

But until you can setup a 'synthetic virtual cockpit' with full on immersion, you simply will not have the full SA that a real pilot needs. Flying a UAV is like trying to drive viewing through a soda straw with a mesh screen over it.

And newer UAVs don't even have a traditional stick/throttle interface at all...so why do you need a pilot with the coordination?

"If you can't feel a thing, you don't need the wing."

FC


Edited by FastCargo (08/25/09 09:20 PM)
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#2848342 - 08/26/09 04:00 AM Re: Pilot Training [Re: FastCargo]
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 20525
Loc: Vienna, 2nd rock left.
Give the UAVs to the young computer freaks. It sounds like an amazing waste of resources to filter for physically/mentally fittest pilot recruits and then throw them onto a computer. Especially, as FC says, when UAVs are not flying in standard controlled airspace.

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#2848763 - 08/26/09 03:21 PM Re: Pilot Training [Re: RSColonel_131st]
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Registered: 09/18/01
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So right now we are getting familiarized with local procedures. At the same time we are training for Emergency Procedures. EPs start as we attempt to start engine and until we turn it off. So we can run into a problem at any time of flight, taxi or simply turning on engine. As problem arises, we fix problem through applying “Boldface” and using Checklist. Instructor pauses / unpauses sim as needed to teach something or ask why such action was performed.
Boldface is something we are required to memorize perfectly and are tested constantly. Everything has to be same as on original. If we turn in boldface with “ – “ or “ , “ missing, entire paper is wrong and we will suffer as a flight. Our punishment is wearing blues instead of flight suits during all times when not flying sims. Blues lack of comfort and utility and hated by just about everyone.

Back to sims and EPs…
For example today as I lifted off, my warning light lit up and panel lit-up with few lights. That means I have to abort take off. Part of “Boldface” for that situation reads “PCL – As required” . At that time I was at 110knots and climbing. I moved PCL (Power Control Lever, or fancy name for throttle) to IDLE and dropped like a rock. As I was about to make a smoking hole in a runway, instructor paused and explained my mistake. PCL while at IDLE produces A LOT of DRAG!
Then he repositioned me and I had same emergency. This time, I moved PCL to off. Prop feathered and I landed as AC safely stopped before runway end.
And that’s the way we learn using sim. Each sim lasts ~1.3-5 hours with 1 hour brief and .5 debrief.

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