Lazy, hot August day....at least in the Northern Hemisphere, SOW news a week or so away according to the "Only a month away" thread (who thinks that will happen?) so let's speculate, or not.
(this is really too long and meaningless so unless you are really, really, really bored, go do something else.)

We know Oleg said he would release a final 4.09 and that would end the IL2 series.
He, as usual with Oleg, will deliver said final through Team Daidalos.

But, what then....and why?

The article and the videos with it seem to indicate TD will continue making addons for IL2 1946.

That is welcome news, many of us still cannot run 1946 at full steam, what a testament to Oleg and team that their game, released 8 years ago is still challenging computer technology and worthy of additional content.

Oleg told us way, way back that IL2 could be vastly better but was hampered by what computers were capable of and that has proven true.

So, how many addons, after 4.09 final will TD release before SOW gets done?
I think at least 2.

Will TD use any outside developed map?
There are several excellent maps that are not really too big for the average computer, maybe one of the new North Africa maps?
There are great large maps too but these tax systems that are not pretty near top line so I would expect TD to steer clear of them.

So far there has been no indication that any TD addon release for 1946 will cost money
It appears they will be free.
OK, I think TD will release 1946 stuff free and then, when SOW gets here, they will be prepared to build quality addons which they will offer us at a price.

That is fine with me and here is why.
Oleg spoiled us with his "patches"
Patches, BM,(Before Maddox...Before Oleg does not initialize well) were defined as:
"Sometimes appearing but mostly not appearing, reluctant offerings that may or may not have fixed a problem or problems with the game."

Oleg released fixes that contained much new content along with the fixes and he did it numerous times.
What was generally perceived by us simmers as a "patch" was actually a free addon containing as much new content as some newer games being released today. (see ROF) (Thanks, Oleg!)

So, if Oleg releases just fixes for SOW problems and TD sells us quality addon material, that's fine here.(although we can expect howls of anger from some sectors expecting lots of free stuff.)

OK, we got the "what then" speculation started, let's go on to the "why"

Why is Oleg supporting TD in this venture?
The final 4.09, be sure, but why beyond that?

I do not really care why, just glad it is happening but this is a speculation exercise so....

Because 1946 is still selling due to the quality of and renewed interest created by the unofficial mods, some of which are extremely well dome?

Because Oleg needs to have a trained team ready to quickly add content to SOW?

Because SOW is still a bit over the far horizon and this is a great way to keep the franchise in the news?

Because....

I cannot believe you actually got this far but if you did, thanks.

I started the 'only a month away' thread, and to be honest it was a bit 'tongue in cheek', personally i dont think we will see any screen shots in September. We have all heard many of the reasons given from various people why we have not seen anything of SOW other than a few 3D models, "Olegs protecting himself against the comptetition" is a common one. To me the the real reason we are not seeing anything is simply because there is nothing to show, everytime we have had hints from Oleg that SOW is close to completion he has then failed to deliver. 'System specs in May 2009', 'Dedicated Website by the end of December 2008', 'September 2009 release date' etc etc. Now i dont know why Oleg or his team have plucked these dates out of the air, it seems crazy to me, but nevertheless they have and then subsequently missed them by years in some cases. This surely shows that any news coming from Oleg/team about SOW has to be taken 'with a pinch of salt'. I have no doubt that it is still happening but i find it increasingly difficult to believe anything that is said. Actions speak louder than words, so someone please prove me wrong.

Well Tree, since this is supposed to be a speculation exercise, here goes.

I think SOW has been pushed back several times because the scope of the game has changed drastically and when it finally gets here we will have one whale of a WWII flightsim game with solid, free online play.

I also think we will have one whale of a WWII land war game soon thereafter, if not simultaneously.

I also think Oleg is working on an online WWII combined ops game ala wwii online, but this one will be great.

Why? Well, does anyone actually believe that Oleg and crew are building such magnificent ground objects for us to just look at in an editor or blow up at 300 mph?

So, what was going to be a Battle Of Britain air sim with future other WWII air theaters added on has morphed into an all encompassing WWII Air, Land and, Sea sim suitable for possible online subscription play?

Of course, the subscription part is for another audience, we will still get our WWII flightsim with the usual online capabilities.

I do not think Oleg and crew are trying to hide anything, I think the sim they were building is not the one they are building now.
I also think the continued interest in IL2 1946 with the Daidalos addons in the mix is calculated to take some pressure off SOW and make waiting a bit less stressful.

All is well in my IL2 world, cool new stuff coming for 1946 and SOW just over the horizon, maybe, please?

i really really hope your right mate...but im with tree on this.

i was at the birmingham flight sim show in 2004 when Oleg announced SOW....so ive lost interest and hope of seeing this sim before my eyes give out

Five years to code a game?

I dont think so.

So far we have seen items (triple A and such) modeled that there is no way we will be able to see it unless you are a kilometer away.

I mean afterall what is left to model??????

The fluid dynamics of the oil in the engines?

Come now...............this game has everything that points to vaporware with some nice 3D models thrown in.

Well, there is some real good speculating going on now.

BKHZ_Furbs, I hope you're right that I'm right.

Razman23, indeed, the ground effects and vehicles we have seen so far possibly indicate more than just a flightsim is afoot here.

Thanks for suggesting fluid dynamics, you just set the game back 7 months while Oleg investigates the possibility.

Thank god I didnt mention the life boat buoys the Germans placed out in the channel for their air crews when they ditched into the water................OOPS! Did I say that out loud?

Since Flight Simulator was shelved there is perhaps an opening for a new general purpose flight simulator. So if they are doing some ground work for that too I'm not surprised if they get delayed a year.

From what I have read, that has been the plan all along. SoW was to be open for modding right out of the gate for offline play. But with MFS being shelved, it would make sense for them refocus some of their efforts. I could see were some different large maps would be very useful in the initial release to capture the general flight sim market. Hopefully, that would be delegated out, away from the core development team.

Immermann, by "general purpose flight simulator" do you mean a civilian as well as military?

Interesting, but I think Oleg is more interested in wartime aircraft than civil and in WWII more than open time frame for the game.

You guys may be right though, about the open modding capability leading to other than military applications but I think, at least for the immediate future, Maddox will be military and WWII centric.

I have no experience with the civil sims.
Can elements of a working civil sim be easily adapted into a military sim engine?

It may be based more on what I would like to see than what will actually happen but I have more than half convinced myself that Oleg will release some kind of combined ops game in conjunction with or in addition to SOW.

I am looking forward to SOW but 1946 still has a lot to offer and it seems to just keep on giving.

Can you imagine what we will see with SOW based on what the IL2 engine has provided for the last 9 years?
Oleg, with the IL2 series, has set a very high bar for his team to clear with SOW.

Good times coming for WWII players, now I just need to hang around for ten or so more years to enjoy it all.

"Can you imagine what we will see with SOW based on what the IL2 engine has provided for the last 9 years? Oleg, with the IL2 series, has set a very high bar for his team to clear with SOW."

Well at least one good thing about the waiting, we know we won't just get a hastily thrown together sequel to IL2 1946.

Yep, hastily and SOW are poles apart.

Regarding how long it takes to make a game:

Take, for example, Dragon Age (a medieval setting RPG). Its an AAA title that will probably vie for "game of the year". I've been a regular Dragon Age (DA) official-forum participant since June 2004 (it had already been in development a year or so). Its being released in November 2009, they say (but it keeps slipping a matter of weeks at a time).

That's roughly 6 years to develop. And, DA has a much bigger development team and budget than SoW (funded by Bioware and EA). DA is probably NOT harder to develop than SoW. Hence, SoW development time may be in the ballpark for an AAA title developed by a small team.

but how long did it take to start seeing screenshots and other info...ie...web site...system req...forum...and other PR stuff?

Dragon Age developers were hassled regularly. Some said DA was a fraud (sound familiar). About around November 2006, a couple dozen screens were released. The fans $h.t all over them. No more were released.

The significant flow of screen shots and in-game videos started in July 2008 -- nominally for a Spring 2009 release date. Since then the release has been postponed a couple times (now November 2009).

So, the deluge of screens and videos made their true beginning about 9 months before the originally scheduled release (but the release has slipped roughly 6 months).

The public was apprised of DA years before it was released and a DA forum was started in 2004. The developers say that was an experiment that they will not repeat.

Nowadays, the new think is to hold back information until about 6 to 9 months before release. In some cases, one will not even know the game is in development until then. Apparently, letting the fans know too much too soon leads to bad public relations, they say.

Actually, hastily and SOW do not exist on the same plane. (no pun intended)

The main problem with SOW is that the title has been anticipated for so long and we all thought it was being worked on way back when and, apparently it was not.

So, glacial startup and techno-creep = we wait....two more weeks, be sure!

two more years, be surer

Yes, I meant both. Weapons aside, there's no difference right?
Oleg seems to like aviation in any form and we will get the SU-26 with SoW:BoB.
There's really no point in differentiating between the two after all (though separate sales generates more money of course), and he has made it clear that he is open for third party developers, e.g the Korea war that is all ready confirmed.
So I don't think he would mind if some of the Flight Sim add-on makers would create some modern content even if he'll probably concentrate on WWII himself.
Well, I hope so anyway, he's shown his expertise in that area for close to a decade now.

It would be nice if Oleg/crew just finished their original concept of SOW first, before trying to cater for everyone.

What do you think will be in the initial release?

Battle of Britain means a short time of intense action to most of us but....

for me the ideal release would be...

Your career would start with training missions in training aircraft...first solo flight,navigation missions,formation flying,mock attack missions then when completed being sent to a operational sqd.

the battle would start just at the end of the battle of France...a few hard retreating missions over Dunkirk to show Britain on the back foot and set the mood for BOB.

That sums it up for me as well Furbs.

That sounds good to me too Furbs.


Wheels

also not always being in the front line.

would be nice if your sqd could be moved away from the front line too if you took too many loses. as well as being transferred to other sqds yourself.

but it seems like sims these days dont do immersion very well so i dont hold out to much hope for that

Another idea I like a lot.


Wheels

there is so many other missions that could be included in SOW as well as normal intercept the bombers...

lone or 2 plane flights in bad weather to cover ships in the channel.

recon flight intercept.

those rare lone night flights(i know these didnt happen very often)

tests of new marks of fighters or engine tests to break up the fighting missions.

when moving from hurries to spits or the other way round you should be given a few free flights to try out the new plane and test.

im sure there are many more...and having them would build up a more rounded SOW experience.

We will probably need to rely on mission and campaign builders for much content outside the actual main battle between the RAF and the Luftwaffe fighter and bomber wings so I hope they are fast.

Going against almost overwhelming numbers or flying against a highly outnumbered opponent will get old fast.

If Oleg does not surprise us with some unexpected content, we can only hope the expansions come quickly.

Who thinks the first paid, third party addon will cover the Battle of France?

Well, if it is, it had better start in the Spanish Civil War and cover the outbreak of WWII over Poland too.

Three addons for the price of one? Yes, if they want to sell them to more than a local audience.

Nothing against any one of those 3 theaters of operation just, in my opinion, all 3 too restricted for seperate addon saleabilty. (is that even a word??)

I would pay for combined SCW, Poland, BOF addon, unless of course, we could get them free.

I have a vague memory that an Su-26 was being developed by the Maddox team for the Storm of War engine at one point. Perhaps it was developed as a test bed for the flight dynamics engine though? I imagine it's relatively easy to get real performance specs and metrics for an Su-26 in order to benchmark and calibrate the game engine.

I think so too. Based on the plane set

• Avia B-534-IV (flyable)
• CW-21 (AI only) -> cockpit implementation currently ongoing for future add-on
• Fokker D.XXI - 5 versions (Only SARJA 3 Early and Late flyable)
• Fiat G.55 Series I (early and late - AI only) -> cockpit already in works for future add-on
• I-15bis (AI only) -> cockpit already in works for future add-on
• I-16 Type 5 + Ski version (flyable)
• I-16 Type 6 + Ski version (flyable)
• Letov S-328 (AI only) -> cockpit under consideration for future add-on
• Re.2000 (AI only) -> cockpit already in works for future add-on
• SM.79 (flyable)

it looks like one PTO addon (CW-21 only used in Asia), one East Front addon (Re 2000 and Letov S-328 only used there), and possibly a MTO addon (Fiat G55 only used in Italy). Of course it's possible that they will bundle them. I assume they will be payware.

Personally I think the flyable I-15bis is a a great addition to the game. And, of course, the Fokker DXXI which is probably the biggest missing piece right now. The fact that we won't get the late versions as flyables doesn't matter since the Finns had mostly switched to the Brewster by then. Finally we will get a complete winter war experience (sans mods).

Guderian, not sure about the payware part, could be but I doubt it, here's why.

I think that Team Daidalos is positioning itself to sell us SOW addons and what better advertising than to crank out a couple of free high quality additions to the precursor to SOW?

I personally have no issues with people selling addons but I hope SOW does not go the way of the Microsoft sims.
Microsoft dumps them out there, makes a ton of money because it's Microsoft and then the paid addon floodgates open up and the crapshoot begins, what's good, what's not?

The IL2 series thrived on free user made content and admitedly, too much free stuff from Oleg so many people, with cause or not, will expect much the same from SOW.

OK, so 4.09 official = the beta maps finished, the new planes listed above and maybe a surprise of some sort?

Then what for 4.10?
Pacific, Europe, MTO?
Will any of the best mod maps make it into 4.10?

I think the Pacific has been too much of a pain to Maddox Games to warrant much more input that might require Maddox support, but the Med would be a popular theater for expansion and its' inclusion in SOW is a distant future event, I believe.

Whatever Team Daidalos does, I hope it is soon, the mod world may be on the verge of spinning out of control and the quality of some mod content is beginning to slip a bit as the quantity rises.

I have to ask, but am I the only one that thinks it a little strange that Oleg has allowed Team Daidalos to produce the first of what will be many patches for IL2 when he plans to release SOW within a year? Surely a conflict of interests? Dont get me wrong here the work that Team Daidalos have and are doing is tremendous but surely it will be little appreciated if SOW is released before next September and according to Oleg it will be.

My theory is that the delays are two fold:

1) The infamous Maddox Mission Creep. IL-2 was originally to be a one flyable plane study sim. But he decided that folks might want to fly the Bf-109 that would be defending against the IL-2. And, then, of course, the escorts the IL-2's had against the Bf-109's. And so on.

2) The modular nature of the Storm of War engine. Remember that he's not having a BoB simulation put together so much as an engine that is modular in nature, allowing for flexibility in making a basket of simulations. Ground based fighting sim? Sure, why not give it the capability, and to make sure that module works, we'll start with having the AA guns at airfields mannable by players. I don't think they'll ever make the mistake of burying unique features into the fundamental source code (like the 109 shadow, which is very deep in the code and couldn't easily be undone) as they did with the IL-2 series.

So you get a physics module, a weather module, a graphics module, and all of them have to talk together seamlessly and yet be able to disconnect, be altered to suit the needs of whatever facet of the Storm of War series/sim requires, and then fit seamlessly back again.

IMHO, Team Daidalos is going to do what the 4.0 FM did. Use the IL-2 series as a working test bed for Storm of War features. The IL-2: 1946 DVD extra showed the SoW weather engine being displayed within the IL-2: FB engine, as another example. They can selectively test features for SoW without letting (or requiring) a full beta of the new engine with a huge user base.

That sounds very probable Dart and I have to say I have thought of this aswell, If this is indeed the scenario then SOW will be a considerable way off, If so why does Oleg keep playing the 'This time next year' card.

He keeps saying that because he's a business man as well as a manager of a development team.

Gotta keep people thinking it's right around the corner to maintain interest!

"When we going to Planet X?"
"Real soon!"

Or so John Yaya said.