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#2820983 - 07/17/09 09:31 PM First career mission (aka bug report) ****  
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ft Offline
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First, a list of bugs found
----------------------------
o Career missions not working as intended (see below).

o AI unable to perform deadstick landings in this mission (Albatros D.V).

- RoF does not prevent the windows screen saver from activating. Very annoying on a strafing run, to say the least.

- Targets of opportunity drawn in the mission briefing map. Seeing a big "attack recon flight" secondary mission icon over the home base kind of spoils the surprise at seeing an enemy recon flight in the vicinity of the home base.

- Ground targets popping in and out of existance. The LOD modelling is sorely lacking. E g attacking artillery you will have the artillery piece sitting in nice big berms with a command tent nearby. At a rather short distance, where the berms are still clearly visible and very large, they are suddenly replaced by small dots representing the guns. The command tent only appears when well within firing distance.

- Icons visible through the structure of one's own aircraft. While I consider icons a valid crutch to use for overcoming the fact that screen resolutions have a long way to go before approaching human vision (I can ID aircraft types out to a klick or two without problems and without straining), X-ray vision is not. The X-ray vision should be a separate option from the icons.

Then features lacking
---------------------
o Button for instant return to unaccelerated time missing, as well as good feedback on the amount of time acceleration in use.

o Can't seem to find a way of starting a career as flight lead. Flying on the wing of AI aircraft is not that much fun.

o A gun sight view sorely needed. A button which toggles to a view where your head is fixed in line with the iron sights of either machine gun, with TIR XYZ movement ignored. Yes, you can create such a view with F10, but then you're stuck there which is useless for navigation and formation flying. The configurable view buttons are just not working as they should.

o Better zoom mode sorely needed for accurate gunnery. A couple of fixed zoom settings accessible through keyboard shortcuts would be the thing. Zoom on an axis is currently all but useless as the zoom is still operating in discrete steps.

o For navigation, the ability to print maps in larger scale is needed. 1:800.000 is all but useless for visual navigation.


Finally a mission report of sorts
------------------------------

Allright, thought I'd try the career mode with the DV. Average mission length, 1917 etc etc and off I go to my first mission. Primary a recon aircraft 3 km north of Beaucamp, with AAA for secondary targets. Peculiarly the target icon wasn't 3 km N Beaucamp but rather on the SE side of Lille. Oh well. Takeoff 1000, TOT 1019. So far, so good. Takeoff, no worries.

Formation joined up and progressing towards the target area. Real crud weather, met briefing said low cumulus but what I saw was more like low stratus with precipitation and 3 km visibility. Good luck on finding that recon aircraft, but hey, you can always try.

We arrive at Lille and flight lead starts circling the city. And keeps circling. And circling. Formation flying in poor visibility with a bit of chop is rather demanding. Round and round we go. And round. And then round and round some more. Great patrol for finding anything in that exact area, but wouldn't it be a tad more useful to fly back and forth a bit? Oh well. Round and round for a bit more.

Eventually I have a nagging suspicion that something is not right. Furthermore, I get royally fed up with right circles. I decide to investigate, break out of formation and land at Houplin in order to observe the flight in external view and accelerated time. Round and round. Until they bloody well run out of fuel and crash. Every single one of them, not one being able to deadstick it in.

If they survived the crashes, they'd be right off to be court marshalled. Tommy infiltrators the lot of them, no doubt about it.

Last edited by ft; 07/20/09 08:03 PM.
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#2821012 - 07/17/09 10:06 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: ft]  
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You're reporting this to neoqb are you Fred?

This is just the peanut gallery

There are some logs generated to help neoqb support

flight lead starts circling the city

Clockwise-circling means that the plane can't see its next waypoint.

RoF has some randomness available in its command structure so things may not happen the same each time

Should you survive, you get back to the aerodrome with two wingmen or four wingmen and so on

Ming


'You are either a hater or you are not' Roman Halter
#2821067 - 07/17/09 11:28 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: Ming_EAF19]  
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Gunsight view: fill windscreen with enemy wingspan, then pull triggers.

#2821480 - 07/18/09 04:52 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: JFM]  
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ft Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFM
Gunsight view: fill windscreen with enemy wingspan, then pull triggers.


Well, there are two different philosophies of getting lead on target. Get good or get close. I'm not prepared to chuck either out the window in order to rely solely on the other. Hence, I need a gunsight view. smile

Last edited by ft; 07/18/09 04:55 PM. Reason: Smiley added, can't go forgetting those li'l buggers!
#2821482 - 07/18/09 04:56 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: ft]  
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JFM Offline
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Hey, ft, go for it! I should have written "my gunsight view."

#2821486 - 07/18/09 05:06 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: ft]  
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Originally Posted By: ft
Originally Posted By: JFM
Gunsight view: fill windscreen with enemy wingspan, then pull triggers.


Well, there are two different philosophies of getting lead on target. Get good or get close. I'm not prepared to chuck either out the window in order to rely solely on the other. Hence, I need a gunsight view. smile


Except aerial MGs are not set to fire in a straight path. If you are looking down the right gun your bullets will be going to the left. You just need to follow your tracers and learn your convergence point. A WWI pilot would not move his head side to side and aim down a single gun like a hunting rifle...

#2821491 - 07/18/09 05:20 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: Bleddyn]  
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That's what I do, Bleddyn. I just watched where the tracer's converged in the windscreen and then memorized where that was.

#2821861 - 07/19/09 06:43 AM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: ft]  
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Originally Posted By: ft

- Button for instant return to unaccelerated time missing, as well as good feedback on the amount of time acceleration in use.

How realistic is that ?:)

Quote:

- Can't seem to find a way of starting a career as flight lead. Flying on the wing of AI aircraft is not that much fun.

I believe it's a matter of rank - everyone starts with the lowest rank. Perhaps neoqb could add later a choice of starting rank like in Il2

Quote:

- A gun sight view sorely needed. A button which toggles to a view where your head is fixed in line with the iron sights of either machine gun, with TIR XYZ movement ignored. Yes, you can create such a view with F10, but then you're stuck there which is useless for navigation and formation flying. The configurable view buttons are just not working as they should.

Good point, but definitely not a bug

Quote:

- Better zoom mode sorely needed for accurate gunnery. A couple of fixed zoom settings accessible through keyboard shortcuts would be the thing. Zoom on an axis is currently all but useless as the zoom is still operating in discrete steps.

Again nice add on, but not a bug. Track IR would heal all related problems

Quote:

- For navigation, the ability to print maps in larger scale is needed. 1:800.000 is useless for visual navigation.

Yep, would be nice to have VFR terminal sectional biggrin

Quote:

- AI unable to perform deadstick landings.

Actually they do! I've seen it many times.


Work hard, flight right

My "flying machine" specs:
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Video Adapter 1: Nvidia GeForce 9800 GT PCI-Express 512MB
#2821867 - 07/19/09 06:59 AM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: JFM]  
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Originally Posted By: JFM
That's what I do, Bleddyn. I just watched where the tracer's converged in the windscreen and then memorized where that was.


Yup and it is not even a matter of memorizing.. this is what tracers DO! It is why they were invented.

My simple instructions to tracer firing... (not deflection shooting etc, I assume we are all beyond that.)

1.)Odds are you will not hit with your first burst. If you do, great! Keep the enemy plane there until it falls.

2.)If you miss with the first burst, watch where your tracers go, put enemy plane there. Repeat.

#2821880 - 07/19/09 07:49 AM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: JFM]  
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Originally Posted By: JFM
Hey, ft, go for it! I should have written "my gunsight view."


Haha, yeah, I figured we're really on the same page. And by the way, the quality of my aerial gunnery still has me in "fill forward sector with wingspan mode" if I want to score a good percentage of hits. Still, bit of sniping is useful every once in a while if for nothing else then to rattle a fleeing faster opponent!

#2821886 - 07/19/09 08:08 AM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: Bleddyn]  
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Originally Posted By: Bleddyn
Except aerial MGs are not set to fire in a straight path. If you are looking down the right gun your bullets will be going to the left.


Except for the fact that convergence is just about irrelevant when you have the guns mere inches apart. Set your convergence for 150 meters and the theoretical bullet trajectories will converge 150 meters out. Chances are the inherent dispersion of the bullets coming out of either machine gun is significant enough to have formed a three decimeter shotgun pattern at that distance, considering the installation in a vibrating environment and the quality of ammunition and hardware. Thus, the streams can be considered parallell.

The fact of the matter is that for aerial guns, you want some dispersion in your rounds in order to have a bit of a shotgun pattern. During WWII, with a few more guns per aircraft, they eventually figured out to make the convergence less than perfect in order to be more efficient. Also try finding a video of A10s raining DPU on a target on Youtube. They certainly could have achieved better dispersion than that if they had wanted to, but it is part of the design.

In conclusion, set your convergence far out in ROF. You will essentially have a single stream of bullets. If you set the convergence to say, 30 m, as I've seen some people advocate, you will have the bullet streams the distance between the machine guns apart at 0 m, intersecting at 30 m, the distance between the machine guns apart again at 60 m, twice the distance between the machine guns apart at 60 m and three times the distance between the machine guns at 90 m. In other words, you are creating diverging bullet streams with increasing distance, making ground strafing and sniping shots inefficient. Better to rely on the inherent dispersion of the guns I say.

Then there's bullet drop to consider, which is also part of the convergence setting. The ballistic trajectory of the bullets will cross the horizontal plane of the sight line at the set convergence distance. However, at the possible firing distances in ROF we can ignore this as bullet drop will be all but completely insignificant.

Quote:
You just need to follow your tracers and learn your convergence point. A WWI pilot would not move his head side to side and aim down a single gun like a hunting rifle...


You're not using TIR are you? Or have you disabled XYZ movement? Learning a convergence point is a tad difficult with your head bobbing about. And I beg to differ regarding how it was done. If a means of more accurate shooting is at hand, a good soldier will use it when able to. High aspect ratio snapshot? Forget about it, no time. Distance sniping? Certainly! Ground strafing? No doubt about it!

#2821889 - 07/19/09 08:18 AM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: sdflyer]  
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Originally Posted By: sdflyer
Originally Posted By: ft

- Button for instant return to unaccelerated time missing, as well as good feedback on the amount of time acceleration in use.


How realistic is that ?:)



Very realistic. In the real world, we have good solid feedback telling us exactly the time acceleration we're at. It's 1x. Period. In addition, we are never unable to be at 1x time acceleration whenever we want to. wink

Time acceleration on the other hand is unrealistic, but for observing AI behaviour it is pretty handy to have in there but the interface leaves room for improval.

Quote:

Good point, but definitely not a bug


Got me! Make that a "bug report and feature request list".

Quote:

Originally Posted By: ft

- Better zoom mode sorely needed for accurate gunnery. A couple of fixed zoom settings accessible through keyboard shortcuts would be the thing. Zoom on an axis is currently all but useless as the zoom is still operating in discrete steps.

Track IR would heal all related problems


Nope, got that and it's not by far as intuitive as moving your head about in the real world, at least not when going for any sort of precision. I'm eternally grateful for the fact that my motor skills are far superior to the precision of TIR!

Quote:

Yep, would be nice to have VFR terminal sectional biggrin


Egg-zactly! I have wet dreams about VFR terminal after VFR terminal completely without any kind of controlled airspace or R/D areas on them!

I'd settle for less though! biggrin

Quote:

Originally Posted By: ft

- AI unable to perform deadstick landings.

Actually they do! I've seen it many times.


Allright, "AI at times seemingly unable to perform deadstick landings" or "AI unable to perform deadstick landings in DVs". Three out of three nosedived into the ground and wrote themselves and their aircraft off.

Cheers,
Fred

#2822709 - 07/20/09 02:02 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: ft]  
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Updated the bug/features list. Additions marked with '-'.

I'm using this as a scratchpad for bug reporting, hoping to have an initiated discussion beforehand.

#2822824 - 07/20/09 04:07 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: ft]  
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to ft:
it was recon intercept right?
can you please remember which squadron you choosed for careeer?


VikS
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#2822994 - 07/20/09 08:01 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: =FB=VikS]  
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VikS,
cc on the recon intercept. I flew for Jasta 10 in 1917.

Also updating the list a bit.

Cheers,
Fred

#2823076 - 07/20/09 09:43 PM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: ft]  
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Quote:
Round and round. Until they bloody well run out of fuel and crash. Every single one of them


I remember this same thing from the early days of Red Baron!!!

#2823174 - 07/21/09 12:46 AM Re: First career mission (aka bug report) [Re: ft]  
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Quote:
- Icons visible through the structure of one's own aircraft.


Agreed with OP on all points, though I think this particular item is feature request rather than a bug. A feature I'd like to see implemented, and just added to my HUD suggestion on ROF official forums. http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1280&p=11846#p11846


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