I have FE, and OFF2 for CFS3.
I have been trying to love both of them, but it is hard.
OFF2 is built on CFS3, and CFS3 has NO viewing system (unless U have Traker IR) and the whole interface is kinda "clunky".

2 things with FE:
The world below is "empty" ( I beg for a campaign expansion built on the FE engine, with a ground war)

Flying FE, something is just not right ? cant put My finger on it, but I know it has to do with the way the AI flips thier A/C on a dime while evading, but on the other hand they never seem to get on your tail. The whole "fight" is never up close and personal as in OFF2 (just wish OFF2 had views)
While the FE view system is outstanding and highly "customizable"

Is FE "lite" because of the flight model ?

I find myself flopping between the 2 sims, never really satisfied

Got to agree m8 - just got FE and installed all the mods etc, etc but it just doesnt kick it for me !

Seems cartoonish, dont like the fact that I cant pan around the a/c in external mode (or can you please let me know?) - dont like the 'map', theres very little on the ground, the upper wing obstructs the view (any way of making it invisible?)

Hmmmm still not sure !!

POMAK

Yes you can. There are several external view modes. One is called 'Chase' and only allows limited panning. Besides the various 'Aircraft to target' modes, there is 'External' view...and that is easily panned and zoomed with the mouse. Look in your control options page.



Yes, you can toggle the cockpit on and off entirely. Cockpit off just shows a crosshair. Can be done in normal and padlock views.

FastCargo

Seems cartoonish? Yet you want to make the upper wing "invisible" because it obstructs your view? Hmmmmm....

As for panning around, if you'll set your camera controls/zoom to the mouse you can hit F6 and pan around your A/C or any other A/C in the air. Use F7 and you can select and view ground objects and pan/zoom around them too.

Yes, the map is pretty sparse where the ground war is concerned. The focus is definately on air-air combat. However there are truck convoys to interdict and tank battles to support depending on mission selection. Try an armed recon or army co-op for some ground action.

Flight models...IMHO, some are very good, some are "passable" , and some are pretty bad. There are several different people doing FMs which is a good thing AFAIC. I agree the AI FM needs some work. The "instant" 180 degree spin on the Z axis to reverse direction some planes can do is pretty silly. Ground collision detection and damage models need improvement. Yes, there are problem areas. Name a sim that doesn't have problem areas. Overall though there is enough that is right about FE to keep me interested. YMMV.

Oh yeah, the original question. FE is considered a lite sim because it doesn't cover the minutia like engine startup proceedures, engine management, etc. etc. Its just "jump in and fly".

FE is lite because of the FMs. No real stalls and spins and no snap rolls. It's plenty good enough for me though.
Since I have a low end computer I'm pretty happy there isn't too much ground clutter etc. FE is constantly being improved and each new release or patch fixes some problems and usually instroduces new features. It's pretty much a one man show so progress can feel slow at times. You should send a list of improvements you'd like to see to Thirdwire. The things most requested are more likely to get done.
If you don't find FE satisfying don't forget to check back in every now and again to see if your issues have been addressed by modders or thirdwire. OH, BTW have you tried the Flanders terrain? I'm expecting a good campaign to go along with it will come out one of these days. Also there are already some ground object mods I believe.

Nothing compares with Red Baron for atmosphere-oh the Lili Marlene music with the artillery rumbling in the background helps the mood quite a bit IMO. Its at CombatAce too.

Have Fun!

It is certenly true.
Nothing is happening below, and thats why i stay on Red Baron.

I bought FE, and OFF, but i also happy to see that WWI Flight sims are comming more in intrest.

The only thing what i don't like about all these Patches that are created, that the developers are making beter manual were to put the patches, it would be less more disucussion on the forum.

But i take my baret of for all the people that put so mutch effort in creating those patches.
I wish i could create patches.

But i am only a historian (or is it easy to do?)

Greetings from Holland,

Ritmeester

my thoughts entirely ...

I think the one thing that hurts it the most is the AI's FM.
I like to hop in and go, not much on all the engine managment and all.
Most times I only have time for a quick dog fight, but that turn on a dime 180 kills it for Me.
I dont need super real FM, In fact I some times turn stalls/spins off (sometimes), But the turn on a dime is below arcade. I want My simming to "resemble" flying

Slack

Slackdaddy, why do you say OFF doesn't have 'views'? That's not accurate. With or without TrackIR, there are plenty of views in OFF. The same views as CFS3, actually.

Oh dear I should have realised its not difficult to offend people when they love a sim - but I stand by my comment, i think the upper wing is obstructive & there is a cartoonish look about this sim from the UI onwards.

I cant believe its been released with such poor documentation - or is there some I havent found yet? I will try to sort out the external view stuff but this highlights my comment.

Ok perhaps I need to delve further but my first impressions havent been good - sorry if that offends but thats my opinion. Thats not to say that all the 'adders-on' wont turn this into a fantastic sim in time !

And dont roll your eyes Buff its very rude LOL

POMAK

Did WW1 pilots have the ability to make the upper wing dissapear???? And I don't think from reading the posts people are offended it seems more like a dicussion of the sim.I tend to mess around with all of them some have strong points and each is enjoyable on it's own features.In the end if I don't like a sim I just uninstall it.

Well the upper wing is there and it was obstructive in real life. Thats the point. There is a Manual in PDF format in the main directory. I have the download version so I don't know what documentation is present with the store copy. Have you looked on the CD or in the game directory? BTW, you sound as if you were expecting people to be offended. You'll have to try harder than that.

Plainsman,
CFS3 has no real view system to speak of.
not sure how to explain it, if it is not obvious ???

No mouse view
No snapview system (except a few foward and side views)
No "lookup" modifier for the few snap views it has
The padlock is 100% independent of the other views (cannot snap foward to check attitude)

The only part of the view system that is 100% is the "panning" and even the panning is not integrated with the padlock.

CFS3 views are so crippled, it's very obvious after 3 min of play. thier is no way to quickly look around or track a A/C

Snapviews with a "lookup" modifier have been a standard since EAW and CK, with a padlock that is tied in.

It is not like they did away with the "normal" views because they came out with a new view system, they just did not impliment a view system in CFS3.

I guess I am kinda lost when people say "what do you meen, CFS3 has a view system"
even 10 years ago EAW's view systems (read: many, full, complete, integrated) where worlds above what CFS3 is trying to pass off.

Slack

I am offended!
BadBud

All the wonderful plane addons and terrains for FE are FREE.OFF is a masterpiece and it too is FREE,and I for one am very grateful,however I did notice that the dope was slightiy off colour on one of Polovski's wings.Oh! well I shall just have to keep on enjoying myself,maybe you should try it sometime

While your comparing sims and all you should check on 'FLYBOYS SQUADRON'. No comments on FM or views from me. Atmosphere for me was great but because it is 'pay to play online' I un-installed it. I thin k you can get it with the DVD of the movie if you buy the special edition. How's that for stirring the pot.

FE for me is great fun.....lots of planes...free, good FM's, nice atmosphere.....
While it's not IL2 I spend lots of time on FE, SFP1, WOV, WOE....all of which are masterpieces of 3rd party innovation and dedication.
Thanks to all of you for hours of great fun!

RTFM - cycle F4 to switch the viewing system.

Hey Tick,
go back and RTFpost !
I am well aware of how to switch between all the 1/4 finished and useless "view systems" in CFS3.
example: the snap views only cover a few of the views and have no look up, but if you read RTFP you would know that.
My post was about CFS3 not having a functional view system that can be used in a dog fight, kinda like the view systems offered in ALL flight sims for the past 15 years.
Unless You consider "float view", "flyby view", or "spot view" functional view systems.

Slack

I am more offended than you...