#2773755 - 11/28/06 07:54 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,894
Gatticus
Senior Member
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Senior Member
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Posts: 2,894
Canada
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Yea, I noticed on the hard setting the same issues. Best to set the flight model to normal until someone tweaks them up.
"Electronic music should have freed the masses from the limitations of fretboards and fixed-pitch instruments. But apparently some missed the memo..." --thegibsonian
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#2773756 - 11/28/06 08:18 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 967
Zurawski
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Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 967
Milwaukee, WI. USA
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Hmmm... I've not had a problem rolling on hard... so long as I rolled "with" the torque. When rolling "against" it... yes, in some situations it is difficult.
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#2773759 - 11/29/06 01:42 AM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 51
Heck Mitchell
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 51
New York
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Actually, from research I did a number of years ago, and the pilot reports from the time that I've read, this is probably the most accurate behavior I've seen in any flight sim for WW1 aircraft. The SE5a especially. See if you can find the book Flying the Old Planes, by Frank Tallman. He explains a lot in it. These were not the slotted ailerons of the 1930-40's. These were barn door surfaces with lots of control throw, which meant a lot of adverse yaw, and it was actually possible to stall a wing tip simply by misuse of the ailerons. I find it to be frighteningly accurate, according to what I've read. The one thing I think is missing is the ability to break almost any airplane by misuse of the elevator controls. I've seen a RFC training broadside reprinted in a book that showed the results of too sharp a pull out by a pilot fracturing the horizontal stabilizer of his plane, with fatal results. The aircraft the RFC chose to portray in this hand out? The SE5a, an airplane noted for its structural strength. What they were trying to tell you, the novice going to the Western Front, was that ham handed flying could get you killed in any machine, no matter how strongly built. There's some things missing from this flight model, like the inability to blip engines, which will affect accurate flight models for rotary engines, but I think much of what's being perceived as errors, at first glance, is actually accurate flight modelling of the time.
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#2773764 - 11/29/06 01:21 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,248
Tailspin
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Member
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Posts: 2,248
Metropolis,Ill USA
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Info re: Spad XIII; "It was faster than its main contemporaries, the British Sopwith Camel and the German Fokker D.VII, and was renowned for its ruggedness and diving ability. However, its manoeuvrability was inferior, especially at low speeds. Poor gliding characteristics and a very sharp stall made it a difficult aircraft for novice pilots to land safely."
And the D VII; "The D.VII entered squadron service with Jasta 10 in early May 1918. The plane quickly proved to be vastly superior to the existing Albatros and Pfalz scouts. Unlike the Albatros scouts, the D.VII could dive without any fear of structural failure. The D.VII was also noted for its ability to climb at high angles of attack, its remarkably docile stalling behavior, and its reluctance to spin. These handling characteristics contrasted with contemporary scouts such as the Camel and SPAD, which stalled sharply and spun vigorously."
Now, I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the roll charastics of the Spad in the sim but the overall behavior of the aircraft seems to be pretty close to RL. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.
Joke em if they can't take a....
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#2773767 - 11/29/06 03:06 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 967
Zurawski
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Milwaukee, WI. USA
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My personal experience: Download/retail version - Hard Settings. SPAD: Roll both right and left accomplished by small dive to gather airspeed... initiate roll and coordinate with rudder input to maintain reasonable horizon orientation. Total altitude loss, maybe 100 ft. SE5a: Roll to the right accomplished by small dive to gather airspeed... initiate roll and coordinate with rudder input to maintain reasonable horizon orientation. Total altitude loss, maybe 100 ft. Roll to the left required more airspeed via dive, followed by a slight climb in conjunction with judicial use of rudder to maintain horizon. Total altitude loss, approximately 300 ft. D VII: Roll both right and left accomplished by small dive to gather airspeed... initiate roll and coordinate with little rudder input to maintain horizon orientation. Total altitude loss, nominal. The DVIIs roll effortlessly... rudder correction to maintain horizon is small compared to the British and French birds... Just my experiance... yours may vary.
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#2773768 - 11/29/06 03:30 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,248
Tailspin
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Posts: 2,248
Metropolis,Ill USA
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I just went back and tried to roll the Spad. Worked every time. Per Streakeagle's suggestion, I used rudder input in the same direction as the roll. I did lose several hundred feet in alt. depending on initial speed but no stalls occured. Shuddered a bit right at the end so you have to be ready on the stick. So, it is possible to roll the Spad without stalling and spinning. Just don't do it low and slow. I think more practice with the control inputs will gain better results as Zur has shown.
Joke em if they can't take a....
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#2773769 - 11/29/06 04:26 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 419
2Lt_Joch
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Posts: 419
Montreal, Canada.
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This reminds of the inevitability of the changing seasons or of the rotation of the planets, every new flight sim inevitably generates flight model discussions. I had not realised this was out, I will be picking it up. I have been looking forward to a good WW1 flight sim.
Intel Q9550, Gyga P35-DS3R, XFX 6950 XXX, 27" widescreen, 8 g. DDR2 @800, 2xWDRaptor 36g HD @ RAID 0, 1tb WD Caviar black HD, X-Fi Fatal1ty, win 7 64bit ultimate, Cougar/FSSB/HS1, Tir4.
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#2773770 - 11/29/06 07:03 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,894
Gatticus
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,894
Canada
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What about Richard Ordway's post about flat turns? Can't do flat turns in this game, rudder input is very weak.
"Electronic music should have freed the masses from the limitations of fretboards and fixed-pitch instruments. But apparently some missed the memo..." --thegibsonian
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#2773771 - 11/29/06 07:17 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Sherpa: This reminds of the inevitability of the changing seasons or of the rotation of the planets, every new flight sim inevitably generates flight model discussions. That is does. But since I have never flown any of these things in real life, I don't comment much on these threads. I rely on flight manuals because the average source on the net or in a book is suspect at best. Seems you can't get 2 sources to agree. But you have to admit these discussions are good to read as there are a lot of smart people in these forums on the subject.
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#2773772 - 11/29/06 08:04 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,524
Keithb77
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Posts: 1,524
UK
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What about Richard Ordway's post about flat turns? Can't do flat turns in this game, rudder input is very weak. In truth even airliners dont do flat turns, the only time you want to do a flat turn is when taxying on the ground....which doesnt work at all in FE. I dont think prop-wash is modelled, so a quick blast of throttle with full rudder, which should spin you round, does nothing. FE is really about dog-fighting, we should concentrate on issues affecting that as TK will more likely fix them. Of to try the Spad again .... Cheers, Keith
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#2773773 - 11/29/06 08:26 PM
Re: Impossible to roll in Spad 13?
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 745
Joker_VMF124
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SPAD rolls fine for me on Hard, but I have to be going fast, something over 100 kts. Like Zurawski says, you need to give it some rudder. Man, though, it's got a vicious stall. Haven't been able to recover yet. Best practice: DON'T STALL THE SPAD!
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CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
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