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#2757341 - 07/03/09 09:31 AM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: BuddyWoof]  
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SimonC Offline
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"I can understand that folks who like arcadish "flight simulators" may find ROF a bit too challenging to get enjoyment out of it. I say to those folks, turn down the realism or go play a simpler game like OFF."

The issue, as far as I understand it, is that the original poster couldn't get his PC to run ROF - I'm sure we've all had the same problem with various bits of software over the years. If that issue is then compounded by not being able to sell on the game, due to the licencing considerations, then that would be a concern for those who haven't yet purchased it.

To put it down to sour grapes on the part of a poster here, or to denigrate another poster is, IMHO, simply an irrational response, and do not understand how that is likely to generate anything other than continued negative impressions with regard to the game.

I have concerns over both ROF and OFF:BH&H, however if I tire of the latter, I have the option of reselling it to another party. With ROF, the impression that I have is that I am left with no such option. That is not a viable position for a game - call it a flight simulator if you wish; it is still a game - like ROF to be in, particularly in the opening period of its release to the great unwashed.

Si

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#2757353 - 07/03/09 10:04 AM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: SimonC]  
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Freycinet Offline
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Some products aim for "the big unwashed" and of course suffer from the lowest common denominator issue. RoF aims for the niche of those who want a proper flight sim for the PC. Other people probably don't even have a gaming rig, but get their kick out of flying arcade flight sims on their console. I do hope that RoF with its superior graphics can drag new users in through the "easy mode", but that is not the primary customer base, I think.


My Il-2 CoD movie web site: www.flightsimvids.com
#2757393 - 07/03/09 12:55 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: Freycinet]  
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Sunchaser Offline
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Freycinet, good ones:, "the big unwashed" "lowest common denominator", nothing at all elitist about those two, eh?

It would seem to me that any company interested in staying in business and making a profit would consider its "primary customer base", anyone who sees the product, online, in a store, where ever.

Of course, I know there are companies that cater to certain upper class audiences with more disposible income than most but I would think a fledgling flightsim outfit would not be among them.

Good going though, bash 95% of your potential customer base.

#2757401 - 07/03/09 01:10 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: BuddyWoof]  
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FlyRetired Offline
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Originally Posted By: BuddyWoof
Also, are you talking about BuddyWoof or Buddye1? Which one is blunt? smile

Frankly, I hardly remember, and that was only a few hours ago.

#2757404 - 07/03/09 01:14 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: Sunchaser]  
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To be honest, being able to change account details could be useful for people who intend to keep the game, as much as to those who want to resell. A lot of people probably didn't have the foresight to register with a web-based email account, so if they go through an ISP change there needs to be a way for them to update their details as well.

On top of that, if it's possible to do so then one can also sell the game if he's not happy with it and simply update the RoF account to point to the new owner's email address.

It's not a bad idea at all and will also help some people take the plunge if they can be assured they can sell the game in case they are not happy. Being unable to resell won't work any miracles for all the people with doubts, but there's also a temporary work around for this. For example, if i were to buy the game i would register my account with a new, disposable web-based email account that i wouldn't use for anything else. Then if i wanted to resell the sim i could give up the email account as well.

#2757436 - 07/03/09 02:06 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: Blackdog_kt]  
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SimonC Offline
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Blackdog,

That was rather my underlying point. Being able to update this information with the makers is surely going to be important, and those people who either wish to sell up or have used a cherished email address - and why wouldn't they? - should have the option available to sell or amend email details as they so wish. That way, substituting a web based account would certainly ease any concern.

My opinion is that given various other considerations WRT content, being online and other issues as mentioned by people here and elsewhere, my purchase of ROF is very likely to be conditional upon how well and quickly it develops to fill the holes that have been identified, and by sales, which will probably dictate the support and development that the game will receive.

"Some products aim for "the big unwashed" and of course suffer from the lowest common denominator issue."

If sales figures and revenue aren't an issue, then you might be correct. I imagine that sales of ROF will very much determine whether or not it remains a supported and developed game. I think I have pretty good faith in the buying fraternity to make a judgement on this or any other game!

#2757512 - 07/03/09 03:38 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: BuddyWoof]  
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rabu Offline
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Originally Posted By: BuddyWoof
I can only roll my eyes at these OFF head comments. Sheesh, will it ever end? Well, I received my copy yesterday, installed it, and enjoying the heck out of it. It's pretty simple, this ain't an arcade game. It's a FLIGHT SIMULATOR. I can understand that folks who like arcadish "flight simulators" may find ROF a bit too challenging to get enjoyment out of it. I say to those folks, turn down the realism or go play a simpler game like OFF.


You really are pathetic.


rabu ...[|8~'

Windows 7 64bit
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#2757518 - 07/03/09 03:45 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: rabu]  
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rabu Offline
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The point it, giving a purchaser the option of reselling ROF will benefit ROF, not hurt sales:

You keep the customer relatively happy by giving him some refund on his purchase that he doesn't want for what ever reason.

The customer then doesn't go out of his way to bad mouth ROF to everyone he knows.

You don't scare off new purchasers with the non prospect of resale... that word is already getting around and it's sounding very negative for ROF

The new owner doesn't make any money for ROF from the initial sale, but does from the add on sales down the road.

You open a new base of customers looking for bargains to get into the game and purchase add ons who might not have wanted to spend the full, initial purchase price.


rabu ...[|8~'

Windows 7 64bit
Intel Core i7 3.4GHZ Quad-Core
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SB X-Fi audio card
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#2757524 - 07/03/09 03:52 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: rabu]  
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The primary point of my post was that ROF does not offer a Novice option for the FM or a option for the player to control the skill level of the AI (both enemy and friendly) so he can more easily shoot down a enemy A/C and have some fun without spending weeks/months learning to fly like the hardcore.

I understand that most of the hardcore players on this forum are totally not interested in these options but to not offer these options may/will closed down purchases for kids, part time players, and players who are new to flight sim.

Is that ROF's intendion?

Last edited by Buddye1; 07/03/09 03:58 PM.

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#2757525 - 07/03/09 03:56 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: Freycinet]  
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koala26 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Freycinet
Some products aim for "the big unwashed" and of course suffer from the lowest common denominator issue. RoF aims for the niche of those who want a proper flight sim for the PC.


Okay, so you pretty much admit that there won't be many people buying this game. I guess I won't expect too many servers to pick from then. If that's the direction this "sim" is going, then I'm out.

Too bad you can't seem to think outside the box a bit and realize that you can have options that appeal to both audiences in the same engine. Oh well, I'm not surprised.

#2757529 - 07/03/09 04:02 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: Buddye1]  
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franksvalli Offline
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ROF actually does offer a lot of "novice" settings: all the "auto" settings as well as "simplified aeroplane physics". Neoqb has said before that they want to make the game accessible to all, which is the rationale behind implementing the training missions.

What are some other settings that would be helpful for the novice? Or things to at least make the learning curve less steep?

#2757532 - 07/03/09 04:04 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: Buddye1]  
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FlyRetired Offline
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I'm not understanding the connection being draw here either.

Buddye1, are you talking degrees of difficulty as equating to desired fidelity?

Neoqb has also crafted a series of training missions, provided historical context for them, with animation, and goal achievements, but maybe hard-core simmers don't think they need such things, but the designers invested their effort to put this feature into the sim anyway.

(?)



#2757540 - 07/03/09 04:17 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: FlyRetired]  
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I think he's referring to option menu items likes these:

Enemy pilot experience--drop down menu-->novice/regular/veteran/ace

Friendly pilot experience--drop down menu-->novice/regular/veteran/ace

Of course not all pilots would be the setting you would specify. You would have a mix of different AI pilots, but the mean effect of them all would round up to that setting.

Another interesting option would be to have a "historical" setting as well. It would really get the blood pumping if squadron movements were modeled down the line and you discovered that an ace outfit just moved in across the lines wink

Edit: Generally speaking, i find it much preferable to dump down the AI rather than the flight model. Flying on the easy FM setting tends to create bad habits that are difficult to shake later on. If you can fly on full real FM though and reduce your opponents to dummies while you learn to manage radiators, maneuver and shoot at the same time, you'll probably have a much better evolution of your skills. From then on it's simply a case of slightly raising the bar as you go until you settle on the "historical" AI levels.

#2757547 - 07/03/09 04:32 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: Blackdog_kt]  
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Casca Offline
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If anyone wants to buy a copy of it, mine is up too.

Camel Jockey may not have made the best case but most replys to him did validate his point on the attitude some of the posters have here.
Maybe I am not cool enough or technicaly savvy enough to sort through the issues I have trying to get this Sim to work properly. But I have given in an honest try, the upside is that there are still a nice mix of Flight Sims that are quite enjoyable.

I hope that in the future as neobq matures this title that it will be worthwhile to revisit.

#2757559 - 07/03/09 04:42 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: Casca]  
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FlyRetired Offline
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Neoqb has enabled for ROF updating, like for most sims, but when issued these will auto-install (so no reason to check back later).

#2757563 - 07/03/09 04:48 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: rabu]  
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BuddyWoof Offline
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Originally Posted By: rabu
Originally Posted By: BuddyWoof
I can only roll my eyes at these OFF head comments. Sheesh, will it ever end? Well, I received my copy yesterday, installed it, and enjoying the heck out of it. It's pretty simple, this ain't an arcade game. It's a FLIGHT SIMULATOR. I can understand that folks who like arcadish "flight simulators" may find ROF a bit too challenging to get enjoyment out of it. I say to those folks, turn down the realism or go play a simpler game like OFF.


You really are pathetic.


*rolling eyes* (couldn't find a smily for it). Ok Rabu, I've seen even more pathetic posts by you at SOH as well as Combatace not to mention SimHQ. Let's not go there for your sake.

#2757573 - 07/03/09 05:06 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: BuddyWoof]  
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BuddyWoof Offline
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I think I agree with Freycinet. I think the aim for ROF from the very beginning was to create an accurate simulation with the highest fidelity FM. This certainly attracted my interest when I first read about it's plans. I would say it the closest to a study sim you can get on a WWI simulator. Sure it's a bit rough around the edges in terms of setting up and I'm sure improvements are coming but the rewards were tenfold when I flew my first career mission. Just awesome uncomparable and realistic feeling of flight is modeled in this simulator. People who like this sort of sim are people who like other hard core sims such as Blackshark, some of the Janes series, Falcon 4, Microsoft civilian simulators (yes, when you use it properly, it's a study sim), and the lockon series. There are more but these are just a short list. Anyway, if flown with realism configuration at it's highest, it's not a sim you're going to fly and shoot down 5 enemies (or more) per mission like OFF, but a more realistic one where you will probably die trying to do so.

Also, if performance is an issue, try turning off Bloom. It doubled my framerates from 30 to 60 on a modest E6600 oc'ed to 3.2 ghz PC with an 8800 GTX.

I'm just glad that Neoqb finally released this long awaited simulator. This is the most enjoyable simulator I've flown in a very long time.

#2757586 - 07/03/09 05:32 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: BuddyWoof]  
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FM Fidelity ONLY is an issue with online play where the maker of the server can decide what is on and what is off, otherwise the sim is VERY flexible IMHO with its various settings.

Reselling the game? I have never sold a game that I bought and I have dozens of "coasters" but to me that is the nature of computer gaming <shrug>

I am not rich by any means and am on a "fixed" income as I am now retired, but if 40 bucks would make me or break me I would NEVER buy computer games. I think alot of this "discussion" is tripe and some of these non-issues are being blown waaaay out of proportion. It's ok to post what it has or doesn't have IF YOU OWN IT, otherwise its just a guess based on what someone else said.

Neoqb posted its' specs for the game, I was on the raggy edge I bought the game if it didn't run it was NOT their fault, they also made it clear BEFORE I bought the game that it was DRM so all in all most of the stuff posted here about what neoqb did or didn't do yada yada yada is just someone screaming that THEY don't like neoqb decision, my question is "what are you so worked up about?" (just don't buy it if ya don't like that stuff and move on)

As for "other" WWI flight sims I just read about them and see what I like and either buy or not, I like what I have read about OFF, so I just bought that along with "base" game CFS3 I have taken a risk as it maynot install on my newer machine but I was warned in advance, such is life smile

Last edited by BigJim43; 07/03/09 05:35 PM.
#2757592 - 07/03/09 05:40 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: BigJim43]  
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SimonC Offline
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"it's not a sim you're going to fly and shoot down 5 enemies (or more) per mission like OFF"

Well, I've played a fair number of flight sims including FE, RB3D/FCJ/WFP2 and OFF:BH&H, and I can't remember being able to down 5 in any flight on any of those games. Specifically for OFF, I feel lucky if I manage to avoid getting shot out of the sky! Perhaps you are simply a much better pilot than the other people I've spoken to.

#2757598 - 07/03/09 05:46 PM Re: Anyone want to buy my copy? [Re: SimonC]  
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BuddyWoof Offline
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Originally Posted By: SimonC
"it's not a sim you're going to fly and shoot down 5 enemies (or more) per mission like OFF"

Well, I've played a fair number of flight sims including FE, RB3D/FCJ/WFP2 and OFF:BH&H, and I can't remember being able to down 5 in any flight on any of those games. Specifically for OFF, I feel lucky if I manage to avoid getting shot out of the sky! Perhaps you are simply a much better pilot than the other people I've spoken to.


Practice my friend, practice wink

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