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#2711990 - 04/22/09 07:51 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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Well first off thanks to everyone who gave me great advice and then sorry for taking so long to give a progress report! I finished (more or less) re-wiring the Logitech into a control box with 4 DPDT momentary toggles and seven mom. pushbuttons. So far I haven't re-wired the pots and probably won't. When I was building it I had a tough time figuring out what the old pots were and now its together I havent felt like taking it apart!

Well heres what the switch looks like half way thru and in its current state. I have to apologize once more because during the build process I didn't have a camera (I do now)!




Right now I use it with LOMAC for flaps/airbrake/engine start&stop and various other useful commands. So far has worked great and proved really helpful.

Now fastforward to now, I recently purchased a Saitek Aviator cheap and was initially inspired by Hannibals cool use of its parts. But then I finally got my copy of black shark and thought well helos do have collective controls dont they? So I'm in the process of finishing a mod to turn that controller into just that leaving the rest of the controller relatively unharmed for the moment....

Heres what it looks like underneath, honestly quite cheap but effective design.

Dual throttle

Toggles

Stick Handle before removing the spring and washer, wont be needing any spring to center.

No going back now!


So next I cut two pcs of 1/4" plexiglass and filed them to act as wedges. Though once the the spring is removed the gimbal is tight enough to hold itself in place.

Then I put the pcs in place and marked where I'll need to drill the holes.



Next thing is to drill the holes and put the pcs in place. I'll drill the holes a little bigger than the screws I use so I can have some play in setting the friction. Hoping to have it done tomorrow night!

And then theres one more, recently I picked up a couple of Shuttle Pro 2 USB controllers for video editing. It turns out that even though they're not game controllers they still act as keyboard encoders in a way. They have an SST like software where you can program the buttons and two jog wheels any way you like even with macros. It has 15 buttons and two jog wheels, one that springs back to center either way you spin the other spins infinitely in either direction.




Started to wire a 6-pos rotary switch but gotta figure out how to make it work because the buttons are the only open type so I'll get repeated key presses. If anyone knows a way to make the switch work please let me know I'd like to use it but I'm starting to think it wont work!

Hitch


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#2712476 - 04/23/09 07:18 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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OK Round Two (still round three to go though).

Tonight I set everything up and changed the plans a tad bit.
I cut a couple pcs of 1/2"x/1/2" wood and attached them to
the plexiglass rectangles I cut.
Next it was time to attach the plates to the joystick.
For good measure I added a piece of door weather stripping.
I only did one side because the idea didnt come until I was
half thru doh!



I had to sand the edges of the wood on one side because
the handle was hitting. With the weather stripping
in place it got the right amount of friction and stays
where you put it.



With that satisfactory I started re-connecting the wires
and wrapped them with heat shrink.



Got all the wires back together!



Now to put it back together!



Notice the middle button missing well its still MIA
and I'll be damned if I'll find it. So after a search
that yielded no dice I found an adhesive backed rubber
foot for electronics. I shaved it down and sanded it
to round the edges and its now a temp. button!



Well for tonight thats it tomorrow I figure a way to
mount it then its proraming and flying the Black Shark!
I purposely havent played to wait for the collective!
I'll post more pics tomorrow when I get things in place,
have to mount a pro gamer command unit also for more buttons.

So far the joystick cost me about $40 and the mod itself has
only cost a a few bucks (I had most parts on hand), an easy way to get an extra
controller.

Last edited by HitchHikingFlatlander; 04/23/09 07:39 AM.

I've got a bad feeling about this.....
#2712940 - 04/24/09 07:19 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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OK round three!

I'll keep this one quick I mounted the AV8R to a square
plank of wood and attached it to the bottom of my throttle
using a 1/8" thick steel tie. End result is I'm not happy
with the sturdiness of the mount it wobbles and bounces
up and down (duh I knew that was gonna happen). The
solution to that is to add another support making it stronger.



And heres a suprise I found the missing button, dropped a screw
and found it when I went to pick it up!



And the new and improved pit Black Shark ready!





It looks cramped but I can get to everything pretty easily and I'm
happy with it for the moment. I want to plan a more proper collective
mod panel with the inside of the AV8R. And I got to say that I really
rushed too fast with the project I'm already noticing things I could
have done differently. But what the hell its kid with new toy syndrome!

Now I have to order some parts for my next project and learn how to fly!


I've got a bad feeling about this.....
#2713158 - 04/24/09 05:47 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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you will not regret your modification..

once you go collective..you CANNOT, and dont even want to go back to a throttle for flying helicopters..

nice setup..
i thought my setup was complicated..


i currently undergoing 2 projects..
1)Suncom SFS F-15 split throttle mod/upgrade (preparing for DCS-THunderbolt, OFP2, ARMA2 & BFBC2)
2) new collective project ! details soon...

#2713167 - 04/24/09 06:15 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: hannibal]  
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HitchHikingFlatlander Offline
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Awesome so you were able to score a Suncom. I look forward to seeing your projects, especially the split throttle! And LOL your set up is complicated I just have spagetti wiring to deal with


I've got a bad feeling about this.....
#2713427 - 04/25/09 11:17 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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Nice work Hitch!!! thumbsup


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"Fear is the mind killer. - Frank Herbert"
#2713451 - 04/25/09 01:07 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: GrizzlyT]  
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hannibal Offline
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so now that you have the collective...how does it feel?

#2713714 - 04/26/09 03:24 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: hannibal]  
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Thanks Grizzly!

It works great the throw is pretty short so I'm already thinking of lengthening it. I really only played BS for a little bit last night and only got as far to set up the AXIS' in game for controls. Rough version is I did OK but have a lot to learn as I couldnt keep the nose down on the shark!


I've got a bad feeling about this.....
#2713738 - 04/26/09 04:38 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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i hear you,, mine is a little too long, but i can always program for a short angle of deflection... the next collective i will be will be smaller..

right now its 5" (grip) + 12" (handle) = 17
im going to go for 5" grip + 6" = 11

#2714071 - 04/27/09 01:09 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: hannibal]  
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I've heard a lot about trimming on the shark so I think thats the technique I need to work on. Not to mention trying to play on real settings I think I have immortal on as I havent blown myself up yet even when I should have!


I've got a bad feeling about this.....
#2844528 - 08/20/09 03:11 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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Did you ever do anything with the pots on the Logitech ? I picked one up tonight (for my rudder) and the wiring is a bit odd. The pots have only two wires...

I also did a mod with the Aviator stick, for a control panel with 18 switches and 5 pots (trims, prop pitch, etc) that worked great.


F/A-18C Hornet cockpit build project:

http://hornetpits.org/index.php?topic=15.0
#2844536 - 08/20/09 03:41 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: PropNut]  
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Quote:
I picked one up tonight (for my rudder) and the wiring is a bit odd. The pots have only two wires...


This stick is USB version?

Sokol1

Last edited by Sokol1; 08/20/09 03:44 AM.
#2844710 - 08/20/09 01:07 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: Sokol1]  
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f15sim Offline
More projects than sense!
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PropNut, pots that are wired with two wires are typically being used as a resistance device instead of a voltage divider device.

The early PC joysticks used the pot to vary the amount of time a capacitor discharged and this was converted to a 0..255 value. Most "modern" joysticks or other analog input systems use the potentiometer as a voltage divider. This means that one wire is ground, the other is +5 and the third is the "wiper" of the pot. This wiper wire is what the input is derived from and is typically run through a component that will generate a 10bit or more (1024 vs 255) value for the input position.

Clear as mud? smile

g.

Last edited by Gene Buckle; 08/21/09 03:16 PM. Reason: changed "only" to "early"

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#2845016 - 08/20/09 09:27 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: f15sim]  
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+1 Gene; Just for extra clarity, read up potentiometers and rheostats; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer#Rheostat - the pots on my suncom were wired up as rheostats, which caused me some head-scratching. Had some fun with my multimeter to figure out the proper wiring sequence on that one, and now that Leo's site appears to be up, I'm probably going to go back and hall-probe it at some point too.

#2845026 - 08/20/09 09:55 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: Gopher]  
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Well I never did anything with the pots, after buying a few more joysticks I have all the trim wheels I could possible need without creating a need for more. I basically left them alone and crammed them into my project box.


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#3138186 - 11/16/10 06:05 AM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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Reschke Offline
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Anyone ever tried cannibalizing some of the TM sticks for these types of projects? Not the expensive ones just the cheap ps3/HAWX type sticks?


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#3138330 - 11/16/10 02:32 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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With entry level Tm stick (or other brands) you do the same thing relate here, just use your USB controller to hook your new pots/sensors, momentary or toggle switch's.
The only exception is Tm.16000M, in this X an Y axis have a different connections - 5 wires
to work with Melexis 3D HALL sensor.

Pictures of disassembled T.16000M:

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=164787

Sokol1

#3138471 - 11/16/10 06:07 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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Once I get out of the range of entry level USB controllers I just bite the bullet and move onto X-Keys or similar. I have an X-keys 128 input device but haven't had a chance to start the project yet. But as Sokol points out its not different on the type of controller you're referring to. I chose my controllers based on availability around the house nothing else.... I had them and they were free lol.

I'd look at what you want out of the controller. Are you looking to build your own stick using the electronics? Or are you simply throwing some switches and trim dials in a box for a custom switch panel. For a controller you may want to hack a decent joystick so you have a quality base to work from. On the other hand if you're looking for some switches to flip any cheap USB stick will work. You can get some Logitech sticks that sell for $20 and have close to 20 buttons and 4 axis'!


I've got a bad feeling about this.....
#3140790 - 11/19/10 09:48 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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Feed Offline
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Another stick you may want to consider hacking is a T16000M ... 4 axes (2 of those are tied to its single hall-effect sensor, though), 16 buttons + 1 hat ... and programmable with TARGET.

It's certainly not as hacker-friendly as the Aviator, but ... worth considering at ~$30.00

As for wiring switches like the ones in your picture, you just solder a wire from the 2 contacts on the board to the 2 contacts on the switch (simplest option). If your switches have more than 2 contacts (such as a momentary toggle that can be pushed up or down from center, or a lighted pushbutton), you just have to make sure to connect the wires to the correct contacts.

For your type of switch or button, you'll want normally open contacts (so that a button press closes the circuit).

edit - wow, I apparently missed half the thread prior to posting that ... nevermind. :]

Last edited by Feed; 11/19/10 09:49 PM.
#3140812 - 11/19/10 10:29 PM Re: A Good Joystick to Hack? [Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]  
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Reschke Offline
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I think I am going to grab at least a single T16000M and incorporate it into my pit when I build it. I don't want or need a lot of switches but it would be good to use that for the trim functions and keep that stuff off my Warthog.


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