From the March 12th interview with Neoqb on the WWI AirCombat site: Click Here Doesn't look all that bad to me, but will just have to wait and see.

3. Do I need an internet connection to play ROF?

Yes, because first of all we are talking about online service, where you can get together with many other people with same interests, where you can get in groups and play against other users or AI and many more.

4. What kind of copy protection is used in ROF?

User online authorization, which processed in game GUI each time you startup "Rise of Flight".

5. Can I play ROF in offline mode?

No, you can't.

6. If an internet connection fails while playing ROF, what will happen? Can I start the next mission? Same with career mode, what will happened with my statistics?

"Connection error" message will appear and you will not be able to continue without proper internet connection, thus all statistics will be lost. But if connection to the internet will be reestablished before the end of the mission this problem might not appear. Please note that multiplayer mode will crash due to lack of internet connection.

7. If an internet connection is required, what amount of traffic (in/out) will there be within one hour?

In multiplayer mode, depending on eventfulness, there will be considerable amount of traffic.
In singleplayer mode (single mission, training, career) - the amount of traffic will be minimal (only statistics and system messages)

8. What advantages will I have when playing ROF (online connection)?

- Most of game settings are saved (backed up) on our master-server. (After terminal change all settings will be transferred automatically)
- Integrated statistics system
- The rules of our game will not change (the same rules apply for all users) in multiplayer and single player mode. Thus both modes will provide competitive game play for all users
- We do not have content scramble system, thus there is no problems.
- Possibility to update game (most of game files) without any downloading and installing.
- And many more

First of all we are talking about online service...
Definately seems to me that they are thinking of the game primarily in online play/multi-player terms...


Seems pretty straightforward...I will need to be constantly or regularly connected to NeoQBs server to play the game Even in single player mode



Integrated statistics system...So obviously my single player statistics will be used by NeoQB in some fashion...be it some kind of league table, blogs or the campaign engine...forcing greater interactivity on single player users.

There in the official Q&A are the three issues i have raised...confirmed by NeoQB
1. That they are focused primarily on the multi-player aspect.
2. That there is no offline mode
3. Collection of statistics will be used to integrated single players into a community

not really, because of next note



Not exactly so-
- we use internet connection as sort of DRM - youll need to verify game by log in to start it, and there is nothing with "no offline play", after mission end in career - stats are sended into your account on server.
Same as about game settings/statistics - they are stored on master-server.
-
Imagine, if youll have had DVD rom rollin time to time when you play? Starforce stuff maybe with disk check regulary?
Instead of that - you just need to be connected to use connection time to time, with kilobytes of traffic (as you make a post on forum).

the approach certainly sounds like the ROF team we have come to know over time

Yes, sounding very good

When's the demo out <tugs sleeve>

Ming

Thanks for the reply =FB+VikS
I think we can all understand your design to implement some form of copy protection to protect your work!
But can I ask why single player statistics are stored on the master server rather than on the players machine?

Viks, the problem is not the amount of traffic, but for people who want to play if they have no regular internet connection. With a DRM like Steam, there is an offline mode. Why can't you guys look into requiring a login only once a week or such? That way if the Internet Provider or your Servers are not working for a few days, the user can still play his paid game.

Also, if I may ask, what kind of server infrastructure for Log-On will you be providing? Will you manage a 99.9% avability in a data centre or some such, and for how many years in the future?

I'm not against the online storage of campaign progress, I just wonder about possible access problems.

I can see a situation when I've completed a busy mission with an hour or so's flight time, downed a handful of enemy aircraft, been awarded a VC and as I exit I get the "connection lost" message of doom. It'd all be lost apparently which would be a bit of a downer. Maybe there could be a resend function to save my progress on my PC but to re-try sending to the server next time? I understand that online only players find these sorts of issues completely unimportant but to offliners it could be very annoying.

Steam has improved a lot lately but even with Valves $$$ behind it I still get the odd "this game is not available" messages, even for products that I've installed from DVD. Its the same for downloading content, sometimes you can't play (even SP) untill you've downloaded a huge update that could be a problem for some users.

It isn't easy this question, is it? But I wouldn't feel happy having to login every time I play and also in having user statistics being sent back to a company whose identity is very unlikely to remain the same over time. Just look at what has happened in the market generally. Most of the companies that made the sims we are still playing no longer exist. So I baulk at that necessity. Also, the question: where does it finish - ? What other stats will be sent? Spyware? Microsoft don't require an online login for user permission so it seems extravagant for a humble software games manufacturer to feel the need to do this.

This is the crux of the matter, and the one that needs a fuller explanation as there are mixed messages coming out, leading to a lot of wild speculation.

By now we all realise that there will be a requirement to log-in before starting offline play; plus if we want our stats updated they will have to be sent at the end of the mission.
However, VikS, can you please clear this up for everyone?

1. Does there have to be a permanent internet connection during the whole of offline play?
2. If, after a person has logged on and is playing offline, will the game continue if the internet connection is broken?
3. If a player does not submit his/her offline stats to Neoqb at the end of a session, will they be able to load the next mission in the sequence that they were playing?

Thus the long-range expansion and add-on business model for RoF, in which having an IP connection is vital to the plan.

Life is full of worries and decisions, and a humble software games manufacturer is not immune from them to any lesser extent than the rest of us.

In the meantime I've got my IP up to snuff, and my system is ready to go (it's what I can do).

Matter of fact I'm wondering when Neoqb makes those first millions on RoF, and then goes shopping for their corporate jet, whether they're going to ask when they should expect it to crash.

They probably should I suppose, would be the prudent thing to do.

The login password is a verification that you are who you say you are and the game is yours as purchased. The alternative is Starforce, nobody would want that.

Microsoft may not require a login/password but it does like to install software on your PC to validate the authenticity of your OS software.

The login process is just a username password, nothing more nothing less, I don't get this malicious malware suggestion.

Here are some things to think about, when you login to SimHQ, your browser sends your IP address, your browser type and your OS at a minimum. You login and submit a password and use a cookie to remember your details or use a cookie to do both.

NEOQB are asking for no more than SimHQ do when you post here.

For those wondering about the longevity of the NEOQB servers. I'd be suprised if they weren't backed up and built with some sort of failover if problems occured. Should the company fail they maybe generous enough to release a patch to turn off the login requirement.

In the meantime they need to protect their product and I'll choose a downloaded nocd game with a simple login over a Starforced Disk requiring the disk be inserted while playing and all the potential pitfals SF may cause*

* already one DVD drive down due to SF on GTL

I can answer some of those just by reading the forum here and the blog on RoF's site


1. No there doesn't have to be a constant connection
2 Yes the game will still run if the internet connection is broken, however it will need re establishing to upload the results of the mission
3 Don't know that one, but a good question there DG I'd be intersted in that one too.

According to NeoQB

But the bottom line is this... that there will still be a group of PC users that will not be able to use the product.. and NO ONE will be able to use the product in the event of some kind of ISP issue, whehter it is a temporary disruption, voluntary disruption or whatever. It is what it is.. and many who were looking forward to this product are disappointed.. I hope that this is not the wave of the future.. because if it is then I guess I'll be finding a new hobby.. This is akin to buying a book that you have to go to the store to read... It is what it is... this is no different than say Aces High or one of the other online venues... in that you cant do it offline.

Period.

I don't fly them for that reason.

I wont be flying this.... no harm no foul.

I wish the developers all the best and I hope you guys enjoy the product.. it looks very very sweet... Perhaps down the road I'll give it a spin.. and who knows.. I may DL the demo and wet myself... and then it will be all over... LMAO.. but for now, it does not seem as if it is for me.

I will be checking around though to see how it goes...

By supporting this sim and wishing it well, you are inviting even more encroaching and heavy-handed types of 'control freak' schemes to come on the market in the future. And if successful, this will reduce the market for aircraft sims because we are a niche market as it is. And the game companies and developers operate on a razor thin profit margin as it is. So we owe it to ourselves to distance ourselves from this type of technology before it spells the total demise of the flight sim market as we know it.

Therefore it behooves us to spend our money elsewhere like BOB/SOW for example, which unlike ROF will not use a sinister Orwellian style DRM, only typical encryption techniques. Let's stay away from this title, it's flight sim Doomsday otherwise. I urge you to join me in this fight before it's too late.

I agree with the new hobby idea. But for me I might be reacquainting myself older hobbies like fishing ( as my screen name suggests ). I really was referring to the actual sport of angling with my name, not to fishing/trolling in forums as some assume.

Bearcat99, I think we can totally respect what you have written above. There is a group of gamers that the IP check leaves out totally, those without an IP connection certainly, and all of us when and/if our personal internet service, or the RoF server(s) go down (to the best of our understanding of how the sim's connection system is to work).

I can see why in the RoF scheme of things, where continuing to make revenue or even meeting forecasts to break even, will come from selling add-on content to the user, so for this the IP connection is a vital tool that allows the rest of the plan to function. In addition, the IP connection allows all the other features of the sim's growth plan to work, and forms part of the verification process too. It's a tight interconnected plan, and it'll likely work, but for some it is too tight, and it'll leave those users without an internet connection out totally.

I can imagine there may be regions where distribution of RoF may only be available via digital download, so this in itself precludes potential customers who don't have internet access. It also makes RoF available to potential cutomers who might never see the sim on a retail shelf, or who can't get games shipped easily. Digital downloading is becoming pretty essential today for all sorts of software distribution, and for gaming too, and the RoF plan is built for this interconnectivity.

Some will be left out, others will be included because of it.

What a bunch of fear mongering. These simple checks are less intrusive than Starforce or Securcom, and certainly won't be the demise of the combat flight sim genre. We go onto the internet daily with the proper precautions and have little fear of the conseguences. Piracy is the biggest threat to our small genre, as there isn't enough monies generated to absorb the costs. Thats why the only combat flight sim developers are simmers who love the genre.

Because players account is stored on master server.

rgr i know, the thing is that we cant do it like "to check in once a week", the thing is that few "rulling" parts of game is work thru master-server, so we cant do it other way right now.
Weve made a choise - if weve made a mistake - time will show.



There will be a few servers (mainhost + proxyes), so even if few of em will be down - youll be able to log in thru other ones.
But i cant answer about "years in the feature", cause many things will be clear this year, that means if we will suceed - we have a huge plans for the feature FOR simulators.

Exactly as I presumed
Thanks for the update Viks, much appreciated

yes and no cause -



As example, yesterday ive played a long mission, and during that time my inet connection broken, w/o finishing a mission ive just re-connected and continued mission, BUT if i wouldnt do it before klickin on "finish mission" button, i will get an "server error message".
Same thing when im starting any mission - if you are offline - you willnt be able to start it.



If you are playing campaign - you can restart the mission if you didnt like results, but if you exited this mission (by finishing it) - stats will be recorded.
As about online - when you setting up a server, you will have to check/uncheck an checkbox with "send results to masterserver", so if youve just had a meatsessin and dont whant to see it in your overal stats - you can do as you whant.

Just to summ up:
- about all the DRM/Internet and such, as for me - im not agree with this kind of DRM which we have, BUT ive heard a good and reasoned facts, which ive had to agree.
So even if im against it - its the one of safest, and painless things chosed.
Did anyone rememberd an Starforse issues posted here? Do you know how many users was lost due to it?
But also - even Starforce isnt safe and can be broken.

And big PS: - it doesnt mean that we didnt hear all negative responds about it - if this issue will really hit alot of people - our potential customers, it will be these new, "good and reasoned facts" to check, cause we are working for YOU!

Thanks for the reply ViKs, I think I understand now.

One more question -



Normally, if my internet connection drops I don't get a message until I try to access email or Internet Explorer.
So if it drops during an 'offline' game does the game stop? How will I know that I have no connection until I click on 'Finish Mission' button and get the 'server error message'?

myne didnt, dunno for how long it can be "offline" but ive had enough time to re-connect, while game was paused



Ive got an system window popped up.

Obviously you are free to do whatever you like. But all this reminds an oldtimer like me of when video cards first appeared and a few brave games came out that required a 3D card. Again much wailing and nashing of teeth and doomsday scenarios. None of which came to pass.
It is unfortunate that there is a certain % of people who want to play but do not/can not get a reliable connection or it is cost prohibative.
However I prefer to hope that the chance for an increase in income due to lesser piracy will outwiegh any loss of income from non internet customers will make our hobby stronger.

And Viks thanks for continuing to post here and giving us what ever updates you can

Am I understanding this correctly? We can host MP/CO-OP missions on our own server as long as it sends the results to the Neoqb master server?

This is indeed good news if true.

That was in the PC Pilot magazine interview with LOFT a few months ago, and now VikS has put it in writing again.

Sounds pretty positive Smosh.

Multiplayer mode will be co-operative. That means there will be two or more teams in the game consisting of an attacking team and a defending side. naturally, they have opposing tasks and objectives. A mission has to be accomplished within a time limit, but each destroyed target adds time to the mission timer. The attacking team can try to fulfill additional tasks which will be activated after the destruction of the main target. The mission is considered won if the main objective is accomplished and at least one pilot of the attacking team remains alive once the mission time elapsed. After that, teams change around. The player will be able to set various parameters for the mission to suit their own personal preferences. So you can create fast and intense missions, or ones that demand more thought and the use of tactics. There will also be a system of awards, medals, and 'trophies'. The latter, for example, could include receiving part of the aircraft destroyed by the player, such as the fabric covering which was common practice during World War One. A game server can be created by the user, but all the game information relating to results is registered on one central server. On release, or shortly afterwards, selected servers, running under Windows and Linux, will be available, with missions rotated - depending on results.

Excerpted from the "Rise of Flight Offline Play" thread.

=FB=VikS,

If the game continues in the same direction that it is, I will be buying it for sure. However, in another thread I brought up the below two questions. Can you respond to these?

1) My greatest enjoyment of RB3D were the competitions between squadrons in tournaments like the Red Baron World League and the Monkey Island Tournament due to the strategy and teamwork required. I would really like to know if these types of tournaments will still be possible with this new system?

2) In RB3D there were all sorts of servers for open play, I usually was much less interested in the dogfight furball servers, and much more interested in Target Team Play servers where even in open play there was teamwork and strategy. Will this new system allow for that?

Best Regards,

I fail to see the logic of the persistent internet connection. Personally I would rather have a DVD rom check running 24/7 than having to maintain a persistent internet connection. At least then I could play during thunder storms, server maintenance or when my net connection stops working (which is frequent)

If I completely throw out the single player and look at it like an online only game like dawn of aces I am fine with it. When you put single player back in I feel angry and violated that I wont be able to play it offline.

To be clear: you need to log in and stay connected when mission starts/ends, server starts/shotwons, and the same fopr your clients connected. For server set-up there is a setting for sending mission results to masterserver (globalstats) in checkbox, you can check/unceck it, means that if you whant to send em - server will send them, but if you dont whant to - it will not, all things depend on you as host - which server settings you set up.
Smh like that:)

Thanks for clarification.

well, you can start a server and run missions on it? Also, right now, server allows to make an auto rotatin of coop missions, so if you will make a pull of missions set - they will be changed after missions completeng.
As about tournaments, we have some fresh ideas to make such things automatic/based on game gui/new multyplayer mode, but we just cant do it right now, so if you whant to run such tournament just right after release - youll need to organize it.



we will have only coop mode multiplayer at release - we just didnt finish many things which we whant to, BUT it will be included dogfight mode into one of upcoming patches with other things, and it will be for free.
So all you need is to update your game time to time.
In the feature add-ons we plan to implement new gameplay modes with new features and content - these will be payable things, BUT again - if you dont whant to buy it - you just playing what you have.

we will have only coop mode multiplayer at release

Wonderful thanks!

Ming

Will you provide a "retry" button so we can leave it for a few minutes and allow us to repair our connection or will a first time failure result in all data lost?

such a button would be a good thing.

Retry button for what? For mission? For connection?

I think he means for the connection. You end the mission, the error message appears because the game can't send the data and now the question is if you have a "retry to send the statistics" button that you can press after you have fixed your internet problems.

For connection. If someone tries to upload their stats at end of mission, but is offline, will there be a reminder to log-on, or the option to try again if unsuccesfull the first time?

Well, if this is a new way you guys think will keep piracy off the game, improving revenues and doing the combat flying simulation market more profitable AND more interesting , bringing more talented companies like yours into this game...
Man, I´m with you ViKs.
I recognize that some worries about connection are valid , but I´m guessing that when the ball starts rolling, many of us will see that this online check is not so big deal.

In the event of a connection problem it would make sense to be able to store your mission progress on your own HD, and be able to retry sending the mission data when a connection was available. An error message telling you that all data had been lost after one try would be very frustrating.

Everyone has connection problems now and then.

Mogster, I thing a main idea behind this is that people shouldn't be able to tamper with the data. That would be possible if it is stored locally for a longer amount of time.

We flew a Central Med campaign mission created by Trooper last night and when we RTB'd and landed with some damage after a long time on fumes in RTB, an airfield ambulance came out to meet us. A triumph of timing accomplished without triggers. Made the airfield come alive

How are triggers working please VikS within the RoF FMB?

You told us that AI planes can be triggered to take off to defend their airfields when incoming enemy planes are detected

Will there be only this simple trigger please in the RoF FMB, or can other airfield objects like the ambulance and the fire truck detect landing-damaged planes and can they arrive near damaged planes with the ringing bells?

Will there be a list of triggers and their parameters available to mission designers?

DeclaredAnEmergencyLanding=1

[AirfieldFireTruckDriverAI]
IF DeclaredAnEmergencyLanding THEN GetCloseToLandingDamagedPlane

(the fire truck needs dynamic waypoints in other words)

Can this happen or something similar, can a fire truck or ambulance move to a plane landing damaged? And any more information on triggers will be very valuable please

Ming

That data could be encrypted and tamper proof..

Hello ViKs,

first thank you for answering at all - since there is no real forum at RoF this is at least an opportunity to directly ask and get a response.

I welcome new ideas on the WW1 flight sim sector, however sending online (MP) or single player (SP) statistic data or whatever via internet connection is against anything i learned in the last 20+ years, and also against anything i would like to see - call the second thing subjective or emotional, the first reason (experience) is big enough a reason for me. As well it does not convince me as a method against piracy. I just do not trust any company enough for that, and believe me this has nothing to do with you personally, or your country.

You have mainly stated three reasons why online play even for single campaign, or missions, is a must:
1. sending statistics
2. Anti piracy
3. updates, some free and some pay-per download.
Please correct me if i am wrong.

My ideas on the points:
1. I personally prefer to refrain from sending data about my behaviour, thank you.
2. Piracy, ok. But there are other methods, and imho the market for good WWi sims is so small that almost all fans will buy it anyway. You will not win others with this marketing model.
3. No problem - i want a new plane, or update - connect - download - go offline - and that's it. Believe me anyone who reads there's a new patch or update for his or her game, will download and at least try it immediately - no automatic needed.

If you state you also do it, so that every person has the same state of update, or patch at a certain time, there are again restrictions. What if i do not want one of the patches e.g. changing the flight or damage model. Or if i want to skin the planes myself, like in IL2 ? Ah, you do not want the RoF community to do that ?

And IF you do it for that reason, why do you sell the sim at all ? Put up an online server, where everyone is free to log in and fly. Charge money for the online connection and that's it. This way you will have no piracy problems. All is, and takes place on, your server. Because that is what this current marketing model really is about.

I have been flying a lot with RedBaron3, but of all this time i spent maybe 5 percent online, if at all. I am just having a ball flying a campaign offline, and look at beautiful planes, landscape and historical events happening - the more accurate the better. I just happen to have no interest in flying on IL2-like servers with their niveau of language and B$; but it seems i am the only one.

I wish you good luck, but i will wait and see - maybe follow the discussions on the boards, and maybe then buy it next year with a new (and better) rig.

Good luck,
Narsinha

Just above this last post about marketing Viks are proper questions about the sim that have not been already asked and answered 437 times

He can't read everything, let's have decent questions (that might have interesting answers) from people who are buying it on day one

Ming

How will User Created Missions be handled?
As one of the few things we already know about the game is that the Online Progress/Scoring mechanism means that you cannot complete one mission and fly another without Online verification and statistics upload and acceptance...
Does this means the missions are stored on the central server and you download them?
In which case how does this impact on user created missions? Must they be uploaded and accepted before they can be played?
Or is there some kind of "lock out" mechanism which means I can create a mission in the FMB but not be "allowed" to fly it until I have completed the previous mission to NeoQBs satisfaction?
What about when I am playtesting a home created mission? Will i not be able to refly it to test different things without an online scoring/mission progress thumbs up from NeoQB? Will I be able to go back and alter something in the mission and refly it without the necessity of getting a mission completed from NeoQBs central server?
What about when I create a campaign of my own? How will i be able to test the different missions in the campaign without constant score monitoring/online statistic updates from NeoQB...
Will it even be possible to test mission 2,3,4 etc of a campaign without getting the appropriate thumbs up from NeoQBs scoring/statistics gathering server?
I understand how important the scoring and stats are to Online players. But the impossibility of reflying/trying new missions/accessing subsequent missions in a campaign without a big tick from NeoQBs Games Server is likely to make life VERY difficult for people wanting to create their own mssions and their own campaigns...

Although thinking about it JB, we're moving towards having our games storage online (that new system promising to revolutionise gaming, and Nvidia and Intel creating a GPUCPU) and for example there's the wars at HL holding our personal and squadron stats: and another example, my comrade Keets allows us the privilege of storing our stats online on his server, we appreciate how good that is to have our stats stored on an external database with a cool GUI and wotnot. RoF pilot page with youtube guncamera videos embedded

So I suppose we could think of the neoqb server as our own personal online stats server. Sounding good and like Fallout3 we could design our own personal pilot log stroke diary stroke WAAF buy raw steak and roses. I mean house in Megaton with jukebox, workshop and so on

Neocube, how did they pick a cool server name are they messing with our minds

As usual, any word checked for originality must face the Google Challenge. 54 billion Neocubes and most of them live in and around the Mediterranean area for some reason

But now Google must face the Mington Challenge. The word bratlock cannot possibly be on Google because I just made it up

Results 1 - 10 of about 415 for bratlock

In other words dear reader, do not worry too much if a word sounds familiar. There is nothing new under the sun. What matters is the melody. Beethoven said that a melody must be at once unfamiliar but at the same time as if it had existed forever. Paraphrasing obviously

Ming

This is a great feature for online "competitive" fliers. However, until recently 95% of WW1 fliers have been offliners (due in part to the poor multiplayer support of past games) and are flying sims which are eight to twelve years out of date (with the developers being closed or reinvented since). So, it isn't surprising that RoF is perceived as essentially an online game with a limited single player mode tacked on.

I don't care much for online DF furballs either - but in this case I'll make an exception - besides even with a limited afterthought of an offline element - its better than no offline play at all.

I dont get the feeling that their offline gameplay is 'tacked on' anyways..it has a flight training, engagements, and campaign mode from what I gathered - that seems fairly complete to me.

I think their copy protection routine is kinda being mistaken for more than it actually is

What is the plan for buyers of RoF if Neoqb goes out of business early on due to a lack of sales, rent increases, or it's server burns out? Are owners simply stuck with a coaster in a pretty box? We all want Neoqb to succeed in a big way, but there needs to be a Plan-B or people will have spent their money (in a recession) with nothing to show for it but that coaster and that pretty box. It's almost too precarious for me. I'm considering canceling my order, sad to say. But I want to avoid feeling helpless whenever I can.
Flyby out

Master server support is not much expensive thing (it costs smh like a squad site hosting), and in a contract with publisher, there is a line, that in such case publisher should take this issue (should support these servers).

Ah, darn... I was hoping that plan-B would be to release a farewell patch, just before the ship goes under the waves, that disables the online requirement and also includes all of the flyable aircraft.

Anyway, glad to hear there's something in place to protect us against the coldest day in hell.