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#2642365 - 12/28/08 09:44 AM Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly?  
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cenkog Offline
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Istanbul / Turkey
All simmers know, good FPS counts are of extreme importance in simulations...


And so what are your system specifications, sim graphical settings and your fraps FPS counts? Any experience; is this sim "system source friendly"?

Last edited by cenkog; 12/28/08 09:54 AM.

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#2642369 - 12/28/08 10:05 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: cenkog]  
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Pizzicato Offline
Asleep at the Wheel
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Vancouver, BC
Black Shark has blown my mind with just how FPS friendly it is.

I'm running a well out of date...

P4 3.6Ghz
2Gb RAM
Radeon 1950

...and I'm getting a consistent 25 FPS in the Deployment campaign.

That's a far better frame rate than I even got with Flaming Cliffs. wink

Don't delay - buy today! biggrin


---------
Pizzicato
#2642377 - 12/28/08 11:06 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Pizzicato]  
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The Nephilim Offline
S3D GuRu
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3rd Stone from the Sun !!
Im getting Playable FrameRates on my PC in sig and it is a dated PC wink


Intel i7 10700K @ 4.8GHZ / ASRock Z590 Phantom Gaming 4AC Motherboard / Asus 1080GTX OC / SoundBlaster Z / Windows 10 64bit / Reverb G2 VR Gear. / Thrustmaster Cougar + MFD's / Buttkicker Simulation / Thrustmaster Cougar
#2642424 - 12/28/08 02:37 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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Plainsman Offline
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Very strong frame rates with my 3.5 years old PC with one vid card update six months ago.


Acer: XB 280HK 28" 3840 X 2160, 1ms, w/Nvidia GSync
Corsair: White Graphite 760T Full Tower
Corsair: 16GB Vengeance LPX 2800MHz RAM
Corsair: SP2500 2.1 Gaming Speaker System
INTEL: Six-Core, i7 5820K CPU @4.2Hz
ASUS RTX OC 2080
Logitech 920 Wheel and Pedal System with Wheel Stand Pro
Saitek Pro Flight Control System with Wheel Stand Pro
Saitek X55 HOTAS
XBOX One S
Track IR5

#2642431 - 12/28/08 03:03 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Plainsman]  
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Posts: 1,169
Dusty Rhodes Offline
Hard, Fair, Play to WIN
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Southern Oregon
My puter is 2 years old at least and I get playable Frames even when I am in the #%&*$# and blowing #%&*$# up. Hasn't stuttered down to non playable yet thru the first 9 missions of the Deployment Campaign and all the Missions in the Mission folder and especially on Multiplay.


Dusty Rhodes

Fight Fair! Fight to have fun! Fight to WIN!

Win 7 Pro, Intel i7 4790K OC'd to 4.6 Gigs, EVGA GTX Titan 6 GB Memory and ASUS GTX Titan 6 GB Memory, 32 Gigs Tri Channel Ballistix RAM, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog and HOTAS Cougar, TrackIR 5, Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals
#2642544 - 12/28/08 07:41 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Dusty Rhodes]  
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jurinko Offline
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Slovakia
Similar to Lock On. Better performance over cities, maybe because it doesn´t fly so fast. Overall, satisfied.

AMD 5000+
2GB RAM
Nvidia 8800GTS 512MB


Letka_13/Liptow on HL
#2642579 - 12/28/08 08:54 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: jurinko]  
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Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Dart  Offline
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Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
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Alabaster, AL USA
It depends on what one thinks is "fps friendly."

For a guy like me that doesn't really get satisified until the number 60 shows up in a frame rate counter, the answer is an emphatic "no," but with caveats.

The big deal with frame rates isn't the number itself. It's about smooth, stutter free play.

At around 30 fps all the world looks groovy and smooth, and what one wants is that to be the rock bottom display rate.

Unfortunately, when one starts out at 30 or 35 fps, there's really no place to go but down - and that can mean stutters.

Thanks to the Vista Dual Core tweak, I'm running 40-50 fps pretty solidly in normal flying conditions, and dropping to the dangerous 25 fps when flying through towns (and I do mean flying through them, not over them). I have seen them drop into the teens and even single digits when doing some unorthodox flying - and that's not a good thing.

Medium settings with heat blur and civilian traffic added and that's really as far as I can go in improving the looks of the sim - unless I'm willing to give up the 1680x1050 resolution - and get true playability. An occasional stutter is usually no big deal in a sim - but when one is manually hovering between two buildings that are 40 feet apart fifteen feet off the ground it can be disasterous.

I'm going to start experimenting with video options to see if I can sqeeze out another 10 or 30 fps to give myself a better cushion for the bottom end.

So, no, Black Shark isn't "frame rate friendly."

The caveats:

First, a tip of the had to ED for building the sim for future hardware, not the present generation of magic boxes. 1C:Maddox did the same thing with the IL-2 series, which is why it has enjoyed such a long life. In the future Black Shark will get smoother and smoother to play with the ability to scale up the graphics to match more powerful hardware. No patching or upgrades needed; we'll simply be able to unlock the next level of beauty with bits and bobs.

Second, they've done a really good job of keeping the stresses within a reasonable band. The difference between the highs and the lows aren't stark jolts to one's system (or mine, at least), but tend to be gradual in nature and self-correcting in the same manner. To use the IL-2 series for comparison again, one doesn't see the Berlin Effect of frame rates going from 60 to 12 in seconds. Part of that, I'm sure, is the slower speeds of helicopters versus fixed wing aircraft. The terrain and stuff gets a chance to come into the picture piecemeal rather than all at once.

So the real question of frame rates - is it playable - is a yes, provided one pays attention to hardware and settings.

My own system:

Intel Core2 X6800 2.93 GHz
2 nVidia 8800GT's in SLI
4 GB RAM
Creative Xfi sound card
Vista Home Premium
None of it overclocked


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
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#2642593 - 12/28/08 09:21 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Dart]  
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Airway Offline
=FI=Squadron
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=FI=Squadron
Member

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Posts: 380
Germany
Yes, frame rate friendly as it gives more than the eye and brain can process

AMD X2 64 6000+
4GB RAM
Nvidia 9800GTX+ 512MB
Vista64 Sp1

Running with AA & AF both on, resolution 1280x1024
all BlackShark settings high.

#2642596 - 12/28/08 09:27 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Dart]  
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Reticuli Offline
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Reticuli  Offline
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Posts: 2,132
Dayton, OH, USA
Huh...it runs at 1-6 fps in the mission called "Battle" on my 3.4 Northwood with 3GB ram and an ATI 3850 512MB graphics card. Blackshark at minimum settings seems to be slower than Lockon at medium settings. Also, since installing DCS:BS two days ago, Lockon now does not work. It starts the starforce check process, I see the little star show up in the taskbar, the sounds of comm traffic, then nothing. If the CD isn't in the drive, starforce doesn't even tell me I need to get the CD. It just starts the disk check and and then stops.

Everytime you click on something in the menus to go to the next page, it also takes 10-20 seconds. Starting a mission takes far longer than Flaming Cliffs, too.

I'm also annoyed there's no 800x600 resolution mode. iZ3D just came out with a new stereoscopic driver system, which has a working DCS profile in it. Unfortunately, my eMagin Z800 HMD can't run at 1024x768. Strange, because Flaming Cliffs was intentionally modded by ED to be compatible with the Z800.

My Z800 trackIR emulation also doesn't work. It's fine in FA18, F4AF, etc, but DCS:BS doesn't recognize the axes. This sim seems to take an inordinate amount of work to do even the simplist things. Now I'm off to find some special procedure for getting TrackIR working. DCS:BS is a good test example of why people love console gaming. No one wants to go searching for some little hidden file in their C drive they have to go text edit to change something or get a function.

Last edited by Reticuli; 12/28/08 09:43 PM.

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#2642668 - 12/28/08 11:22 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Reticuli]  
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Posts: 284
Haukka81 Offline
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Haukka81  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 284
Kemij�rvi,Finland
Hi.

Black shark is very well optimized. Look¨s better and runs much better than lock on fc at my system.


I have:

Core duo e8400 (3.0 gzh)
4g DDR800mhz
Ati Radeon 4850
Win XP

Settings:
1920x1080 2xAA 4xAF
Water = medium
Vis distace = medium
Civ traffic = ON
All others high or maxed out.

Avarage Fps is about 30-40 in combat.

Read here:
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=34194&page=3

-haukka

ps.sorry my bad english, my finnish is better wink

Last edited by EsaHietala(Finla; 12/28/08 11:23 PM.

I5 8400 , 16gb , GTX 1070 oc , Win10 64bit . Virpil T-50 27" monitor with 2560x1440 rez ... DCS + Oculus CV1 + Samsung Odyssey . (odyssey is better for flight sims)
#2642670 - 12/28/08 11:24 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Reticuli]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Dart  Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Alabaster, AL USA
@Reticuli:

IIRC, they fenced off the TrackIR hooks to only work with actual TrackIR software and units; it seems that the emulation stuff uses their proprietary code, which is a no-no.

It's super unfortunate to say so, but the Pentium Four Northwood is a bit long in the tooth, coming out in 2002 and pretty much phased out in 2004. Assuming you got the last batch of Northwoods, your processor is four years old and two (well, three, but the i7 is so new that I'll keep it out of the conversation) generations behind the mainstream gaming computer.

Very interesting that you should mention consoles, as if you had bought a gaming console in 2004 it would be obsolete and replaced by now (if one wanted to play current games) - the PlayStation 3, XBox 360, Wii, etc., were just mockups for development teams pitching to the respective corporation board members when your CPU was manufactured.

Indeed, an XBox 360 costs about the same as a Quad Core processor with mobo and fan (using Circuit City and Pricewatch.com - though I found some models of the XBox are much higher), with the exception that a PC can do far more than play games, and will probably prove to have a longer life cycle than the console.

Scratch that - the PC will have a much longer life than the console, as one can open up a PC and upgrade the hardware. Consoles, when outmoded, go into landfills. It's all or nothing.

Similarly, simulation enthusiasts are a very tiny wedge of PC users. We tweak and hunt hidden files and tinker. That's because we are the kindred of drag racers and hot rodders - we need to push our gear to the absolute limit and measure things in a much different standard than most.

There's no file hunting or tweaking with LEGO Indiana Jones, Bioshock, Call of Duty IV, or any of the cross-platform titles on PC - because they aren't particularly demanding on the posted required systems. We can thank consoles and their frozen-in-time hardware for that; most PC's are much more powerful than consoles. There's no real scalability in any of the "also PC" titles as well, so one gets what one gets and that's all there is to it. There is no room for the software to grow.

The only software I've ever really tweaked for performance have been high end simulations, and for good reason. They require more. And that's okay because I demand so much more from them.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2642748 - 12/29/08 02:35 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Haukka81]  
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Posts: 303
RockEye Offline
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RockEye  Offline
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oklahoma city
dumb question, what is the command to show the frame rate?

#2642763 - 12/29/08 03:15 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: RockEye]  
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Reticuli Offline
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Reticuli  Offline
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Posts: 2,132
Dayton, OH, USA
Dart, if you notice where I said it in the post, I was in no way giving props to consoles for their longevity, but for their lack of having to go in and text hack stuff to get something or correct a function or turn something on/off. ED seems to think all their customers are comfortable doing that instead of just making bigger options menus. I am "comfortable" with it, but I can understand why people gravitate to consoles. I seem to spend more time screwing around with everything besides playing/flying. I gave my gigantic PS1 (original unit with audiophile DACs and direct sound output cable...I miss that part of it) setup to a friend a few years ago. I don't have the various "boxes" and "cubes" out there. I'd gladly take a piss on the Wii. I hate consoles for a wide variety of reasons, but the lack of text modding of hidden & config files isn't one of them.

On a positive note, turning most stuff up in my card and in the sim does not seem to hit my framerates that much. So maybe that is an improvement over Lockon.

Last edited by Reticuli; 12/29/08 03:26 AM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#2642776 - 12/29/08 03:31 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Reticuli]  
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Chipwich Offline
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Chipwich  Offline
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Atlanta, GA
A small request please for those of you who post in this thread. Having the PC specs is great, but there is a lot more to the picture, so to speak. It would probably be a good idea to include these as well.

Game settings: Low, Medium, or High
Resolution:
AA level:
AF level:

Thanks in advance.


PC: 5600x / 32GM / RTX 3090ti / Quest Pro
..................................................
Console: PS4
#2642787 - 12/29/08 04:03 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Chipwich]  
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 22,095
citizen guod Offline
Lifer
citizen guod  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 22,095
Originally Posted By: Chipwich
A small request please for those of you who post in this thread. Having the PC specs is great, but there is a lot more to the picture, so to speak. It would probably be a good idea to include these as well.

Game settings: Low, Medium, or High
Resolution:
AA level:
AF level:

Thanks in advance.


One more along the same lines. Yes or no: Are you running DCS:BS at the suggested system settings?


Wisdom is knowing what's enough
#2642841 - 12/29/08 06:11 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 40
schmeeling Offline
Junior Member
schmeeling  Offline
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Posts: 40
CYVR
Was running it on a P4-2.6 with an ATI 1950XT, getting 10-15 on low settings (not so good...). Not really enough machine, even with everything turned down.

New machine is an E7300duo@2.6 w/ 3GB and a GEForce 9800GT. Pretty stable at 30+ in Simulation/Campaign with high-ish settings at 1650x1050. Excellent performance actually. I have AA/AF set as "application controlled" so I don't think they're on (?).

Killer sim.

Frame rate display is <R-Ctrl> + <Pause|Break>


schmeeling
XP-SP3, E7300@2.66, 3GB, 9800GT
#2642875 - 12/29/08 10:34 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: schmeeling]  
Joined: Nov 1999
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Goalie Offline
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Goalie  Offline
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Posts: 1,107
BC, Canada
I'm running it on a E7200 @ 3.17Ghz, 2GB RAM, and a ATI 1950Pro set to 4XAA. With everything set low, except textures at medium and cockpit res at 1024, I'm averaging around 30-50fps in the first two missions of the first campaign.

Oh and affinity is set to both cores.

#2642958 - 12/29/08 02:35 PM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: Goalie]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 24
GunSlingerAUS Offline
Junior Member
GunSlingerAUS  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 24
Sydney, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Core2Duo @ 4GHz
4GB DDR2-800
680i SLI mobo
8800GTX
X-Fi XtremeMusic
Vista 64 Ultimate Ed
TrackIR3
X-52 Pro

Every setting maxed
1980 x 1020
4XAA
16XAF
Mirrors OFF

Averaging between 45 to 75 fps
Lowest I've seen is 28 fps while warming up next to two other KA-50's in short range.

Last edited by GunSlingerAU; 12/29/08 02:36 PM.
#2643310 - 12/30/08 01:38 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: GunSlingerAUS]  
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GunSlingerAUS Offline
Junior Member
GunSlingerAUS  Offline
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Posts: 24
Sydney, NSW, AUSTRALIA
I lied. Just hit 20 fps over a large town with shkval on. Time to start tweaking

#2643428 - 12/30/08 06:31 AM Re: Is "Black Shark" frame rate friendly? [Re: cenkog]  
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Bard Offline
Member
Bard  Offline
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Posts: 2,222
Victoria BC Canada
Originally Posted By: cenkog
All simmers know, good FPS counts are of extreme importance in simulations...


And so what are your system specifications, sim graphical settings and your fraps FPS counts? Any experience; is this sim "system source friendly"?


Depends on # of objects.

I get 80 odd FPS in an empty mission at a lower res, but if I load the gunnery range mission I am down in the teens at the airfield and in the 20's a once I get some distance out. Dual Core 3.0 and Nvidia GTX280 - running at 1920x1200 and medium settings otherwise.

So in a nutshell - no, it isn't framerate friendly - and seems purely dependant upon brute horsepower to overcome the hit each object in the mission inflicts. More objects = lower framerate - and because each object is beautifully created with high poly counts it doesn't take too many to start knocking the framerate down.

BUT - because the pace is generally slower the game remains playable at lower framerates.

I haven't yet created a test mission to determine if the old bug of performing graphical processing for objects that are outside of visual range (like in LOMAC) is still occuring.


Last edited by Bard; 12/30/08 07:14 AM.

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