Hola,

Jester and I were testing the Jutland Demo this weekend, we noticed some very odd behaviour from the Gunnery. We also toggled poor Ammo AP handling, etc.

1, While playing single player our gunnery was terrible, right down to 2000 metres we couldn't hit anything. Using gun camera mode we could see our results were all over the place, long - short - right - left.

2, While playing Multiplayer the German BB has laser guided rounds, pretty much hitting every salvo. We even switched sides and both times the British BB was pounded to pieces by around 3 minutes.

Overall for the price, I think it's a pass. We really wanted to like it but found it flawed at this point. Flashback to the Fighting Steel days !!!

Assuming you were playing "The Duel" I can only comment on single player.

I`ve played the Duel a few times now (and boosted it up with more ships in the Editor). I got very different results from it. Shortest engagement was "Emperor of India" blowing up after 170 seconds as my third salvo hit a turret. Longest was 1 1/2 hours, with both ships more or less wrecked, but both swimming. I always try to keep the range above 10 km though, as the shooting seems to becomes odd the shorter the range is.

BTW. the developer says, none of the sides has a gunnery boost. As on gamesquad the first online AAR are coming in, I haven`t heard of such a phenomenon either. Keep in mind, that in "The Duel" the position of the German BB is IMO slightly favorable, as your own smoke is blown away from your target.

Z.

PS.: as SES is known for a great service (DG had 50+ patches) it is quite sure that Jutland will made better over time too. Maybe you should try it again in a few weeks. Which brings me to the question, were you already updates to 1.0003?

There's a fascinating post over at the Gamesquad forums about RL gunnery experiences during this period. This post: http://forums.gamesquad.com/showpost.php?p=1093446&postcount=15 describes the experiences of a gunnery officer during a battle and is a pretty compelling explanation (for me at least) as to why some of my ships' salvoes are all over the shop.

The thread this cam from also contains some fascinating statistics from the Jutland battle showing hit rates for ships that can be less than 1 or 2 percent.

The only unusual thing I've noticed from my play-throughs of The Duel, is that the Konig Albert usually hits EOI with the first salvo. After that, German gunnery is usually better, but British shells hit harder.

smith

Firstly having read two books specifically on Jutland, I understand that at that moment in time, through more advanced optics, the german navy had more chance of hitting their target than the brits. Also there were design flaws in the british fleet however neither explain the poor results in this game.

I have bought the full version and have played the full blind man's bluff fleet action twice as the british navy ( cant do it as the germans as my great grand father and grand father fought in the british navy, it would be sacralege to their memory).

In both occassions I managed to get the main british fleet battleships and battlecruisers to cross the T at 4000 yards, with all firing into the lead german battleship , yet lost 7 battleships to 1 badly damaged german ship. At the same time I scored at least 3 torpedo hits with kamakaze destroyers who sailed in close to slow them down to marginal effect.

Something seems "porked" and this was after the latest update. Its a shame because other than this I love this game, I just want to make sure we are getting realistic results. I hope someone from the developer is reading this forum.

Firstly that seems a bit too close for WW1 gunnery.

My second thought is that if everyone is firing at one ship, how are they supposed to sort out their own fire from the general mess, in order to plot and correct their fire?

Assuming they can place fire roughly onto the target, you will see rather fewer hits on a frontal target than against a full broadsides target as well, as the salvo will spread both sides rather more often.

Worse, any hits on the 'sides' - which could be 40-50% of the front/front-quarter target will be highly oblique and may fail to penetrate. Even a good penetration may fail to travel far enough to reach the 'innards' before the shell bursts.

Try to spread you fire along his column, keep at a longer range and nearer the beam and see if that actually improves performance at all? It might dramatically change the outcome, or you may suffer even worse.

Probably didnt make my comments clear enough. My fleet had engaged initially at much longer range, using shell cam they might as well have been shooting at the moon. I was engaging at target free and it was only as we crossed the T that I centred fire to see the damage model. Seems strange that my battleships sank one after the other when the german fire control could only have been forward turrets and thhe following ships would have been unsighted over the leader of the column. I'll try again but even at the start of the battle with 2 british cruiser firing on 1 german, they never hit it once but it scored hits on both. I still feel ther is something amiss

There is apparently an accurancy penalty for multiple ships being given a single target, to reflect gunners not being able to spot fall of shot (or rather separate the fall of their shot from others) and correct, and that may also be happening when you cross the T. I've been try to achieve this and it hasn't been successful for me either (perhaps for that reason).

Lately I've been trying to keep the Brit ships distant from the German ones to allow the longer reach of the Brit guns to take effect, but the AI likes to close the range and it's difficult to judge what's happening from the 2D map. I have been going broadside to broadside, with my Brit line angled away from the German line as much as possible to open the range and reponding with turns away when I see the Germans trying to close in.

However, the Brit accurancy is terrible (I think historically so) and my gunnery doesn't seem to be effective for BBs and BCs until the range is ridiculously close and then the line comes apart once torps are fired and they all start evading.

On a tangent, I just played a scenario called Broad Fourteens and in the midst of a huge slugfest between BBs and BCs, I saw a single German DD emerge from the line of German BCs and make a solo attack on two Brit BBs. He closed in to torpedo range, got two fish away and was then smashed by the Malaya - straight from green to black. I think the torps missed. Some great moments in this sim.

smith

I've actually stopped playing Jutland for now, as I find the British gunnery to be appallingly bad.

Even point blank, any ranges, distance, orientation, the Germans will consistently nail me with rounds, and my shots are just all over the place.

There is a slider that I see in the settings labelled gunnery accuracy, but I don't know how it affects the game.

Is there an ini file we can edit to increase the British accuracy?

Summary Of British Gunnery Results

1st and 2nd BC:
Heavy shells fired: 1,469
Hits: 21
% hits: 1.43
Shells /hit: 70

3rd BC:
Heavy shells fired: 373
Hits: 16
% hits: 4.3
Shells/hit: 23

5th BS:
Heavy shells fired: 1,099
Hits: 29
% hits: 2.64
Shells /hit: 38

1st, 2nd and 4th BS:
Heavy shells fired: 1,593
Hits: 57
% hits: 3.58
Shells /hit: 27

All British Capital Ships
Heavy shells fired: 4,534
Hits: 123
% hits: 2.71
Shells /hit: 37


Summary Of German Gunnery Results

1st SG:
Heavy shells fired: 1,670
Hits: 65
% hits: 3.89
Shells /hit: 26

1st, 2nd and 3rd BS:
Heavy shells fired: 1,927
Hits: 57
% hits: 2.96
Shells /hit: 34

All German Capital Ships
Heavy shells fired: 3,597
Hits: 122
% hits: 3.39
Shells /hit: 29

Information taken from Appendix 5 in "Flawed Victory" by Keith Yates. Much greater detail is available in the book. Another book that provides many statistics (and is a thoroughly good read) is "Jutland, The German Perspective" by V. E Tarrant.

There's apparently an issue with accuracy between single player and multiplayer scenarios, with multiplayer providing some unrealistically accurate shooting as you found. I believe it's being worked on.

In terms of single player, Pips is right - historically accuracy was awful for these ships (especially Brit BCs) for a whole bunch of reasons and this is certainly seen in the game. I have been playing Brit and it's rare my ships hit the same sea as what they are aiming at. Frustrating at times, but true to life. Makes you focus on manoeuvre etc...