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#2634879 - 12/16/08 12:11 AM Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-...
Panther Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 4297
First installment will feature the SA-6, it's my favorite Surface to Air Threat to go up against. Enjoy!!

SA-6.wmv <---Right-click, save as.
SA-6.avi <--- Right-click, save as (smaller file, recommended for low bandwidth users or low end PC users).
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My Cockpit

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#2635126 - 12/16/08 10:49 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Panther]
Falconeer Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 232
Loc: The Netherlands
Very nice P!!! thumbsup

Here's my version of it. It's from last year:

--------------------------------------------------------
RECORD BEGIN TIMESTAMP 12/23/2007 13:47:12.
Game is Tactical Engagement type LocalMission name: !SA6

Mission Type: SEAD Strike
Flight Callsign: Cowboy1
1 Ship Flight
Ac type: F-16C-52 CCIP
Country: U.S.

FLIGHT EVENTS
Event Falconeer joined as Cowboy11 at 08:59:04
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:00:00
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:00:10
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:01:31
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:01:53
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:04:10
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:04:20
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:05:51
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:06:05
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:06:23
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:07:15
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:07:21
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:08:51
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:08:59
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:10:12
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:10:18
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:11:32
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:11:44
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:13:16
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:13:31
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:14:56
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:15:22
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:15:28
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:16:09
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:16:19
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:17:32
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:17:38
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:17:58
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:18:15
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:18:21
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:19:33
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:19:39
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:21:11
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:21:17
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:22:42
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:22:50
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:23:48
Event DPRK StraightFlush destroyed by Falconeer at 09:24:22
Event Falconeer exited from Cowboy11 at 09:26:46

-------------
PILOT SLOT 1:

Human Player: Col Falconeer
Callsign: Falconeer
Pilot status - OK
Aircraft status - OK
AA Kills 0
AG Kills 1
AS Kills 0
AN Kills 0
Shoot At 36
Other Player Kills 0

screwy tactical
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#2635772 - 12/17/08 06:56 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Falconeer]
superpilot81 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 4
great job!

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#2910216 - 11/29/09 09:47 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: superpilot81]
tarball Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Tx, USA
This link is dead, do you have a new link? I'd like to check this video out as the SA-6 is my problem area right now.

Thanks!
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This sig is free of fundamentalist-infused dogma masquerading as wisdom...

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#2910247 - 11/29/09 11:20 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: tarball]
Panther Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 4297
Fixed!
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Virtual Thunderbirds, LLC | Sponsored by Thrustmaster

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My Cockpit

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#2910336 - 11/30/09 03:37 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Panther]
PrivateNoob Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 145
Loc: Sweden
Thanks! Great video! Didnt know abot flashing the jammer and when, I just push J once if I remember it.

Need more, particular A-G tutorial videos ala mavericks, HARM and etc. biggrin

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#2910412 - 11/30/09 07:37 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: PrivateNoob]
Thommo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 41
Loc: Australia
This is a question, not a critism. I don't understand why you kept doing barrel rolls on the final approach of the missile. At one point you stop pulling to change the aspect on the missile to do one and it almost gets you. I don't understand how that would help avoidance.


Edited by Thommo (11/30/09 07:37 AM)

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#2915095 - 12/07/09 01:31 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Thommo]
Robdcamp
Unregistered


Good job panther. I've had a lot of problems with the Gainful myself (that is the NATO codename right) The in all honesty though Right after that I find that the SA-2 is a pain to deal with to. In the SEAD training mission in the korean theater I found myself either getting splashed by the SA-6 or the Guideline.

How does one go online in this game, is it easy to do?

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#2915153 - 12/07/09 04:48 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Thommo]
white_fang Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 166
Originally Posted By: Thommo
This is a question, not a critism. I don't understand why you kept doing barrel rolls on the final approach of the missile. At one point you stop pulling to change the aspect on the missile to do one and it almost gets you. I don't understand how that would help avoidance.


Oh, well,

...any our changes to the aspect, even smallest one will make the missile turn...

Why missile turns?

1. To get your ass/nose into interception or pure pursuit path.

And how does missile turn?....

1. It rotates, using canards, ailerons, and as a matter of fact, such doing rolls makes missile more dragging. (Air resistance onto some surface, which can, doesn't have to be aero-dynamical, in this case they are,.. BUT!, ailerons on 45-90 degrees are NOT aero-dynamical and produce more drag)

And we want to keep in mind that missile is affected by g-force as everything in the air/ground, but can sustain much more, about 10 times as fighter.

It actually depends on what type of missile.

And we want to know that missile is about 2,3 times and more, faster then fighter, so for turning in really "tight" turns it needs to be very maneuverable, and they mostly are.

Why we want missile to turn?

1. To trick it for to loose our track
2. To bleed energy (with help of drag/air-resistance)

How to make missile to bleed energy?

Missile will bleed speed/energy if it turns, especially if it's motor doesn't run.

Missile's motor runs until:
a) runs out of fuel (missiles are much smaller than planes, well most are :), and have smaller "fuel tanks" on-board, and they don't carry under-pylon additional fuel-tanks)
b) it destroys itself and/or target (well if self-destroys, it's out of fuel "long" before)

-so, to conclude.

We want to turn/roll/change aspect to incoming missile to make same missile turn too (because it tries to intercept us and looses its energy (speed)), so it cannot keep with us making such evasive attitude changes (turns)... because of its high speed and tracking logic.

That generally leads to knowing your threat.., a MUST, because NOT all threats are SA-6's.
There are some like SA-10 (S-300/400). You'll meet with them at the time wink

Finally, so these are not some mumbo-jumbo *rolls*, and they require lot's of SA (situation-awareness) and practice and NOT panic!.

Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers

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#2915222 - 12/07/09 09:09 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: white_fang]
Ed_1 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 374
Loc: NYC, USA
Originally Posted By: white_fang
Originally Posted By: Thommo
This is a question, not a critism. I don't understand why you kept doing barrel rolls on the final approach of the missile. At one point you stop pulling to change the aspect on the missile to do one and it almost gets you. I don't understand how that would help avoidance.


Oh, well,

...any our changes to the aspect, even smallest one will make the missile turn...

Why missile turns?

1. To get your ass/nose into interception or pure pursuit path.

And how does missile turn?....

1. It rotates, using canards, ailerons, and as a matter of fact, such doing rolls makes missile more dragging. (Air resistance onto some surface, which can, doesn't have to be aero-dynamical, in this case they are,.. BUT!, ailerons on 45-90 degrees are NOT aero-dynamical and produce more drag)

And we want to keep in mind that missile is affected by g-force as everything in the air/ground, but can sustain much more, about 10 times as fighter.

It actually depends on what type of missile.

And we want to know that missile is about 2,3 times and more, faster then fighter, so for turning in really "tight" turns it needs to be very maneuverable, and they mostly are.

Why we want missile to turn?

1. To trick it for to loose our track
2. To bleed energy (with help of drag/air-resistance)

How to make missile to bleed energy?

Missile will bleed speed/energy if it turns, especially if it's motor doesn't run.

Missile's motor runs until:
a) runs out of fuel (missiles are much smaller than planes, well most are :), and have smaller "fuel tanks" on-board, and they don't carry under-pylon additional fuel-tanks)
b) it destroys itself and/or target (well if self-destroys, it's out of fuel "long" before)


To add in the beginning of missiles flight path ,at least with some radar based missiles (whether they A/A or S/A (sam) ) will take lead pursuit path to "cut" off and shorten ToT . When its in this phase changing direction will bleed its speed more because of constant changes in its intercept path .

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