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#2611480 - 11/05/08 06:55 PM Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock  
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Hi, my system is listed in my sig. This is my first self-built pc, which i did a few months ago, with help from you guys smile . Now, I am a complete newbie at overclocking. Right now, I am using the stock cooler and settings for my cpu. I would like to get my cpu to about 4.0ghz stable, using only air cooling. I would like to know:

1. How many case fans do i need? I have a case with slots for 2 90mm fans on the back, and one on the side. I currently have only one fan installed.

2. what PSU and wattage are required?

3. Which kind of CPU coolers would you recommend, and what are the criteria for a right CPU cooler, for a e8400 at 4ghz? How will i know if it will fit in my case?

4. Assuming I will get the right parts at newegg, how do I start overclocking, since the multiplier is locked?

5. anything else i need to know?

any advice would be heartily appreciated. Thanks!


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#2611495 - 11/05/08 07:36 PM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: JAS39]  
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I have one of the new direct touch heatpipe coolers on my E4400 stock 2.0Ghz overclocked to 3.2Ghz. It is here. I got it at the egg while on sale and paid about 35 for it. It comes with a nice 120mm fan and it's installed so it blows the air to the back of the case.

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2233

The Maxtor PATA drive you have which is a 4200RPM drive would be better replaced with one of the new SATA drives with 32Mb cache like this one.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288

The P35 chipset is a great overclocker. The easiest way to overclock is to increase the frontside bus speed FSB. The way your CPU is set up is the FSB times the multiplier equals the speed of your CPU. Your multiplier is locked on the CPU. So you can't just increase the multiplier. But you can lower it.

That is what Intel speed step does. Some motherboards do not report the true FSB in the BIOS, like my ASUS P5N-3 SLI. It shows the FSB as if it's already quad pumped. So when figuring the true FSB, you have to divide the figure by 4. My E4400 runs stock with a 10 multiplier at 200. This figure shows in the BIOS as 800 since they apply the quad pumped figure. So divide the 800 it shows in the BIOS by four and you come up with 200 times the 10 multiplier equals 2.0Ghz.

To run my CPU at the 3.0Ghz. I just leave the multiplier at 10 and set the FSB as it shows in the BIOS to 1200 and there it is. Divide 1200 by four and it equals 300. 300 times multiplier of 10 equals 3.0GHZ.

The hard thing about overclocking is you memory is on the same FSB as your CPU. So if you leave it at the same speed as your overclocked CPU, the system will not boot. So most of the motherboard manufacturers have what are called dividers. So you must set your system RAM to run at a slower speed. It's usually like 5/4 or 5/3 or some other combination. I would just go here and read up on the P35 chipset.

http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/254734-gigabyte-ga-p35-ds3l-thread.html






#2611605 - 11/05/08 10:22 PM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: speedbump]  
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thanks speedbump! now, since my mobo, which is a GA-P35-S3G, supports up to DDR2-1066 speeds, does that mean that if can set my CPU FSB at 1066? The help you provided was very good, but the link doesn't open...?


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#2611623 - 11/05/08 10:55 PM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: JAS39]  
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Yep. You can set your CPU divider to 1/1 and it should do OK. Just remember for stability for overclocking, you must disable the built in Intel speedstep in the BIOS. There are two settings that have to be disabled. One is CIE and I'm not sure what the other is. I'm sure some other person will come along and tell us what they are as that board or boards like it are very popular here. If you don't disable it, the CPU will speed up and down and will generally be unstable in it's overclocked state.

Also not sure what the FSB is of that CPU, but many times you can get a higher overclock by going one step lower on the multiplier and higher on the FSB, because many boards have FSB holes. FSB holes are when there is a certain FSB setting where the board won't boot. By lowering the multiplier and raising the FSB higher, you jump over these holes.

Even though my CPU has a 10 multi, I can lower it to 9, raise my FSB to 1450 and get a CPU speed easily of 3.25Ghz. I can't get that with the multi set at 10 any way I set it because of the hole.

#2611660 - 11/06/08 12:16 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: speedbump]  
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hmm...how do you lower your multiplier when its officially locked by Intel?


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#2611693 - 11/06/08 01:24 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: JAS39]  
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The multi is locked upwards except for Extreme CPUs. You can lower the multiplier though. It's only locked upwards. There will be a setting in the BIOS for the multi.

One of the reasons that CPUs with high multipliers are so good for overclocking is you have more options as far as settings and changing the multiplier down. A CPU with a 10 multiplier is much easier to overclock to it's max since the FSB times the multi equals smaller changes. A multiplier of 13 is really good for overclocking.

Some of the lower clocked CPUs have a multiplier of like seven, so any changes in the FSB are extreme. Your multiplier is 9.

http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/287125-e8400-multiplier.html`

#2611696 - 11/06/08 01:32 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: speedbump]  
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hmm. 3000mhz divided by 9 is 333.33333333 . but officially, the e8400 is rated at 1333mhz FSB. this does not round out...


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#2611697 - 11/06/08 01:34 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: JAS39]  
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never mind, it does round out.....


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#2611700 - 11/06/08 01:39 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: JAS39]  
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sorry for being a pest with so many questions.....

so in my instance, when do i decide to lower the multi? is it when i encounter a hole in the mobo only?

how can i calculate the Power requirements? i think that my antec 550w will not survive 4ghz...


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#2611717 - 11/06/08 02:14 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: JAS39]  
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I would try to overclock it with the multi set to the default...9. Also, those guys running at 4.0Ghz are upping the voltage to reach that level. Higher voltage equals heat and too high equals the death of the CPU from electron migration. The best thing to do is leave the voltage at stock and increase your FSB a little at a time till it won't boot. Then back it off a little. You should be able to reach at least 3.5Ghz without increasing the voltage hopefully. Also keep in mind the memory running too much out of spec will keep it from booting. When overclcoking the memory, it takes more voltage for it too. Your PSU should be fine.

Like for my CPU, it runs stock at like 1.15 VDIM. To reach 3.25Ghz, I have to increase my VDIM to 1.45. Anything over 1.5 for my CPU is flirting with disaster.

#2611748 - 11/06/08 03:27 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: speedbump]  
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Over the hills and far away.
I run my CPU, a Core 2 Duo E6850 (3Ghz) at 3.8Ghz with the vcore at 1.36v
Maximum vcore for a E6850 is 1.5v
Just to give you some idea.
Best regards, Kodiak.


I Want To Believe
#2611759 - 11/06/08 04:11 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: speedbump]  
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4.0Ghz is pretty ambitions. I know e8400s will go there, but you will have to add a LOT of voltage to go from 3.6 to ~3.8, and a LOT more to go from ~3.8 to 4.0+. As someone says above, your components die faster. But probably not inside of 5 years, and most of us won't be using the same parts by that time.

For 4.0, Most guys end up with ~1.4v on the e8400, but that is above Intel spec so they must have some very good cooling. What kind of cooler are you using on that CPU? If you haven't decided try either a Zalman or a direct contact heatpipe Sunbeam cooler from Newegg.com. You're talking $40-60. Use arctic silver 5 thermal grease.

By the time you are done, I'm guessing you are going to have to increase your CPU, memory, Northbridge, and FSB termination voltage. OC'ing is not dangerous so long as you know your hardware's outer limits. I would recommend you consult someone before you start to make sure you don't sizzle your brand new equipment. Clock speed is fine to experiment with, if you take it slow; voltage, not so much. smile

#2611968 - 11/06/08 03:02 PM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: speedbump]  
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Originally Posted By: speedbump
Just remember for stability for overclocking, you must disable the built in Intel speedstep in the BIOS. There are two settings that have to be disabled. One is CIE and I'm not sure what the other is.
I think one is "Speedstep" and the other "C1E" (not CIE). However, different motherboard manufacturers may use different terminology for these things.

#2612080 - 11/06/08 06:11 PM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: Joe]  
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A question from the gallery... Do you guys who overclock run that way full time? Or do you drop to stock speeds except when you need the performance? Are these PC's run all day or only when needed?


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#2612109 - 11/06/08 06:36 PM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: adlabs6]  
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My overclock and my computer run 24/7. Changing the overclock requires entering the BIOS, which means a reboot. I only reboot when I need to or should (about once every two weeks). If your overclock can't run stable 24/7, then it's not a good overclock.

#2612134 - 11/06/08 07:24 PM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: Joe]  
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My E4400 ran at 3.0Ghz to 3.2Ghz for about eight months nonstop. It's in storage in Texas. The thing that kills a CPU is heat and electron migration. They are both mostly caused by the increase in voltage needed to reach those incredible speeds. My old E4400 would easily reach 3.5Ghz, but only by going above 1.5 to the 1.7 VDIM area which is only good for suicide runs. Overclocking makes sense if you have a cheaper CPU. It makes no sense to fry an expensive one. Many people would be better served just buying a faster proc since it takes additional cooling not only for the CPU, but the northbridge usually gets way hotter since it's where everything goes through. I had to strap a small 60mm fan to the northbridge heatsink on my P5N-e SLI board or it would just burn up. Also had to scrape the cheap dried out thermal paste off the northbridge heatsink and replace it with some arctic silver. I did that when I took the board out of the box though. I also lapped my CPU heatspreader. For some reason, most of the Intel heatspreaders are concave, letting the heatsink only make good contact with the outer edges of the heatspreader. It dropped my temps at least 5c. Lapping the heatspreader will void the warranty. No big deal for a 125 buck CPU, but a big deal for more expensive procs.

Like Phoenix said. Be conservative. If you can get 3.6Ghz with a 8400, that's pretty good and it will last at those speeds for a long time since the voltage probably won't have to be increased to the frying pan range.

I ran my old 2.4C P4 at 3.0Ghz for at least 4 years. It's in retirement now.

#2612399 - 11/07/08 04:17 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: speedbump]  
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thanks for the suggestions. Looking from your comments, I think its best for me (since im a newbie) now to just leave the voltage alone, and play with the FSB around abit. luckily i found this article, just in time:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclocking-software,2059.html

a few more questions still linger in my head:

how can I make an informed decision on what cooler is best for my overclocked CPU? I know Phoenix talked about a Zalman or something for a suggestion, and speedbump mentioned a link above. But different clock speeds require different ones. So how, on my own, do I decide a good cooler (not that I don't want to follow your suggestions, its quite opposite, I just want to be able to form educated decisions of my own in the future) for lets say, 3.5ghz? 3.8ghz? etc. ?

What is a direct contact heat pipe? whats thermal grease?


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#2612417 - 11/07/08 05:08 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: JAS39]  
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Thermal grease is known as TIM or Thermal Interface Material. It's the white or gray goop that fills in the voids between a heatsink and the heatspreader. Thinner is better when it comes to TIM. Proper TIM application makes the difference between having a cool running proc and a smoking one.
Everyone has their favorite TIM though.

The best place for heatsink tests are at Frostytech.

http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm

#2612607 - 11/07/08 02:41 PM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: speedbump]  
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A direct contact heatpipe is a heatpipe that directly contacts the CPU heatspreader (the metal casing that is over the actual CPU circuitry). In the past heatpipes (which are cylindrical) were attached to aluminum or copper blocks, and the blocks in turn contacted to the CPU heatspreaders. As heatpipe technology improved, heatpipe engineers figured out how to make effective heatpipes with flat cross-sections for a portion of their length. Once this was accomplished, the heatpipes could be placed in contact directly with the CPU heatspreader, which is a more effective cooling method.

#2614099 - 11/10/08 01:00 AM Re: Help! A newbie needs to know how to overclock [Re: Joe]  
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thanks so much! off to play around with Gigabyte software!


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