How many games do you own that require the CD in drive so you can play them?

Each of these games uses Copy Protection. I'm not aware of many US games that don't - even Oblivion requires a CD Check.

The international Stalker Clear Sky uses a different protection, and there's No-CDs avalable too. It's also on Steam. Only the russian version uses StarForce.

As for Hells Highway, I find Securom listed as copy protection. Which means it will still require a disk in drive to play. Would be curious if someone has found the contrary to be true.

Very simple here. It has StarForce, it is a no-go over here, period. I always rated SF as invasive malware and I had a system that showed negative effects from it being installed with SH3, so I know that the talk is real. No game is worth to let that stuff on my harddisc. I regret to bail out from Black Shark, but I will always decide against any game coming with SF.

Actually they helped me to decide to save my money. Seen that way I am thankful for them. that they make potential customers running away, is their concern, not mine.

I completely understand and respect everyones opinion on this, I still just can't help feeling how much you will miss out on this.....

Why do you think we're so pissed at it? precisely because we know we are going to miss out.

That's why I'm hoping it will either find it's way onto Steam, or be cracked so I can buy a legitimate version and never install it.

Well, somehow you are wrong and right on this one

Wrong: Hells Highway is protected by securom

Right: Securom is a "0 copy protection"

Clear Sky STEAM Version use TAGES as a DRM System.

Most ( 90%+ ) of PC games have a CP plus Key for MP. Im sure it's not a other thing in the US of A.

Although I have not had problems with it, I've had botched installs ( try to activate/patch FC in the wrong sequence ... ) so that Starforce would not activate no matter what, it required me to re-install a backup copy of the entire OS, had I not had that backup copy I would be ...

Eagle Dynamics is entitled to choose whatever draconian copy-right protection means it wants - in fact, they could choose to use all of these to use their game : a CD-key activation, CD-check, Starforce driver and an in-game online activation.

That said, knowing that Starforce has a dismal image with its buyers and an un-enviable reputation, it either shows poor judgment in choosing it yet again or worse, a wanton disregard specially when we know that there are many other copyright protection schemes.

TDW you will agree with me that as a publisher you would use the most effective CP?

Im sure they chose SF because it prevented FC piracy pretty well. Being a rather small game developer you have to protect your investment even harder than, lets say EA with the laughable Securom CP.

Best example would be Steel Beasts Pro PE which uses a Codemeter Dongle which is also installing drivers on your HD/OS. Admitably the communication is between the Dongle and the drivers on your OS and not your DVD ROM.

Hi,

Securom is a safe CP that does not cause issues.

The Game looks SUPERB, Gearbox are a highly reputable company and i will buy this game to support these developers, i have NO-PROBLEM with their CHOICE of CP.

For the record:

NEWS: Ubisoft won't use Starforce anymore !

The rumor has been confirmed: Ubisoft decided that the anti-copy software used with any future Ubisoft games won't be Starforce, starting with Heroes of Might and Magic V.

Ubisoft was the largest producer of Starforce restricted games, and it's a huge step toward the end user. A big thanks to all the people who spread the word on Internet for some years ! But don't stop the fight yet, Starforce is alive and a lot of great games are still protected with Starforce. Nadeo, Egosoft, do you read us ?

Its right on the first page : http://www.glop.org/starforce/

Ubisoft made the right desicion and put their costumors FIRST.

I can now install this game and enjoy it WITHOUT having to worry about system istabilities...

While legitimate russian customers have to PUT UP with this in their country,we in the west do not want this foul troublesome CP system that has been PROVEN to cause problems and upset to legitimate paying customers.

UbI dumped them and with GOOD REASON.

Brothers in arms GETS MY MONEY (will post a pic of the box and receipt as proof of purchase)

DCS Black shark DOES NOT "PERIOD"

ED are wrong to force us to put this cp on our systems.get rid of it,we dont want it over here,its not welcome...

Godspeed.

Absolutely, in fact I am a strong advocate of copy protection and countless times I've stated that my experience with Starforce has been indifferent, in fact, I've had no meltdowns.

But choosing Starforce yet again is too much - take ORBx

http://orbxsystems.com/

I've bought 3 terrain add ons from them, they have an effective way to make you register

take Captainsim, you have to register online to install

http://www.captainsim.com/

take Thirdwire, I am sure Tsuyoshi Kawahito is serious about his copyrights but he uses none in Wings of Israel

http://www.thirdwire.com/

take my advice, choose another way.

@ Maddox, Securom is cracked usually on or even before release day...

@ TDW: Im sure ED is in knowledge of SF' "reputation", still its the most effective CP out there right now.

Would love to see the ratio of selled games / downloaded patches on WoI.

PS: In my dreamland there are no need for CPs at all, because we all buy our games

Just because it's the most effective CP system out there doesn't mean they have to use it.

I seriously hope they either change their mind about using Starforce for the Western version or they lose a lot of sales because of it and then decide to stop using Starforce.

I said I was done with this one. I know you aren't forcing me back here, but I do feel compelled to answer this because I was having difficulty yesterday articulating my opinion.

I understand the concept of "principle". If I am a patron of a restaurant and I find a hair in my soup and I tell the waiter, if his reaction is "BS...no you didn't. If you want another bowl, you're going to have to pay for it", I wouldn't visit that restaurant ever again. I'd also tell my friends about it and recommend that they not visit either.

The thing is, this is easy to say and do when you've seen it yourself. My experience with StarForce has been one of putting my FC disk in the drive once a week to let it run its check, thats it. I've done this process on two computers so far, one with a CD burner, and I've had zero problems. No destroyed drives, no security issues, no loss of CD burning capability. StarForce has never bullied me personally or twisted the arm of the developers of any games I feel are worth my attention

In other words, if my friends tell me about a horrible experience at a restaurant, that isn't going to stop me from trying it myself until I see for myself. Yes, maybe I'm a hypocrite in this regard. I'll tell my friends not to visit, but I'll ignore their recommendations. I'm perfectly ok with them ignoring mine though. I have a hard time taking anyone's word for anything. I have to see it myself. Too many times in life have people tried to sway my opinion on something being bad and in fact, its just been their perception, crappy attitude, or unrealistically high standards that has made it bad for THEM, all the while I find it perfectly acceptable. Same case here. Lots of fellow simmers being very vocal about how SF has destroyed hardware, caused problems, and how the company has acted like a thug. Ok, whatever, to me its a thing that asks me to put my CD in the drive every week. To you its an evil monster forcing itself upon developers and ruining peoples hardware. Can you see gap in perception here and understand why I /facepalm everytime I read these threads?

Second, and finally for this response, "principle" has several different levels. Or, I should say at least it does for me. If a tire company is making shoddy tires that are getting people injured and killed or if a meat packing company is contaminating meat and getting people sick, thats one thing. Reading about an obscure CPS program that I've never even heard of before buying FC, the people who hate it and have had problems with it, and the list of mostly bargain bin games I've never heard of or never cared about that people are boycotting out of "principle" -- is a different thing entirely.

Lets see...boycott SF out of principle because a bunch of people on the internet I've never met before are saying its bad vs. playing Flaming Cliffs every evening and getting hours and hours and hours of enjoyment out of it AND doing the same with BS? Yeah...I'll pick the second choice.

It really is that simple. I'm bolding this for emphasis because this is the bottom line with me and StarForce and in case this gets lost in the wall of text. I respect everyone's opinion on this, but it has absolutely no weight with me. Nobody will ever convince me until I see it for myself. They can link anything they want showing me how horrible StarForce is and how they're thugs, and it will mean nothing to me in terms of avoiding it. I can just as easily turn it around and say that they have an agenda. And I am no less credible than them in this regard since I don't know them personally and probably never will. My first hand experience with them and my first hand experience of the evils of StarForce are both equally non-existent

I don't mean one ounce of disrespect to anyone in this statement. It sucks that there are so many who have been adversely effected by SF, but when I don't see it first hand, and I don't perceive the effects as outweighing the positive things I HAVE experienced first hand, I'm pretty much not going to heed anything anyone says about it and choose to chart my own course.



Many do, some don't. Some games I have only require a CD key. StarForce seems to be different, from what I can tell, because its letting you forego having the CD in the drive all the time and just running a check once a week. That is unique, and something that I've only seen SF do. And the only thing I have with SF is Flaming Cliffs. Frankly, copywrite protections on most games I have actually seems rather light.

I ask about Europe since I once read that software piracy in Russia and the former CIS countries was a big problem. A big problem since it took the form of counterfeiting rather than just some kid cracking the game in his bedroom. That type of thing doesn't even seem to be on the radar in the US, I rarely hear about it. In fact, I usually associate large-scale counterfeiting of goods to be a third-world type of thing. Which is strange because I certainly would not call any part of Europe "third-world".

Eastern Europe and Russia are of course not all of Europe, but they certainly are geographically closer to the rest of Europe than they are to the United States, which is my only frame of reference. :P

Hi groove,

My first priority is to not upset my fellow flight simmers, (we all have 1 thing in common)We love our sims...

Also i dont want to do battle with Starforce on SimHQ (this place is great for my hobby) and i feel that SimHQ have been caught up in this and they have acted quickly and made the right decision by not taking sides and letting us discuss the issue.

So i dont wanna post too much about it and drive people to the edge of dimentia.

Now that said bia is already cracked and up their.(i wont say too much for obvious reasons).

But a freind of mine who works in GAME where i buy the few titles that appeal to me just told me over the phone that its SELLING HEAPS...

I phoned him to put a copy aside.

most people that DL it from warez sites will also buy it because NOTHING FEELS BETTER THAN SUPPORTING YOUR HOBBY and it just feels good to have some sort of relationship with the game developers.

Some games give out a unique ID which allows you to join a forum and DL extra content,the devs then get to know their paying customers and a loyal fan base is formed,now you can be assured of sales for your future products,

Lead Pursuit are doing it this way over at frugals world and their fan base will support their next product,ill be buying it straight away because i LIKE the way these guys do business.

Ubi would not make these games and take massive risks unless they knew for sure it would pay off.

Godspeed.

They already said they are not changing the CP. Unlucky, you will all miss out.

Seriously, do you SF haters all still hold grudges against all the nations who instigated world wars?? Probably not but you do against a company who made a couple of mistakes in the past (then fixed them).

It's laughable.

Hi,
I'm generally a passive forum-user, but I extra registered here just to say that ist a pitty that SF will be used and I will not purchase the game (and so two of my closest friends). X3 crippled my system and I refuse to use it again, doesn't matter whether SF managed to erase their problems or not.
BS looks wonderful and I pray someday there will be a version without SF.
I hope (and I think it was confirmed) that FighterOps will not use SF.

Greetings from Germany...