Hi Guys.

Over the past couple of days at the GEN, I've been drawing up a new 256 Tmods list, with suggestion of other members of the Code Group. The reason for doing this is two fold. Firstly, some of the Tmods have to be added to the exe, so they will work in campaigns, etc, and secondly, to give us modders something to work toward. It surprised me how quickly the list filled out, but I'm sure there will be a few contentious proposals in the list.

So, it's over to you guys. What changes do you think there should be made? Civilian Tmods are to bring a bit of life to cities. City specific Tmods, well I guess you know what they are for. The bigger range of hangers is to make the airfields look more different from each other, and allow for Airship hangers in WWI. In fact, I've kept in mind both WWI and WWII in this list, but I'm sure changes can be made.

T000-NULL
T001-Axis Oil Plant
T002-Axis Ball Bearing Plant
T003-Axis Chemical Plant
T004-Axis Aircraft Factory
T005-Airfield / 3dz not used
T006-Axis Armaments Factory
T007-Axis Rail Yard
T008-Axis Factory
T009-Axis U-Boat Pen
T010-Axis V-1 Launch Site
T011-Road Bridge Stone
T012-Road Bridge Wood
T013-Road Bridge Iron
T014-Rail Bridge Stone
T015-Rail Bridge Wood
T016-Rail Bridge Iron
T017-Axis Heavy AAA
T018-Axis Light AAA
T019-Axis Oil Storage
T020-Axis Radar Station
T021-Axis Radar Tower
T022-3D Forest 1
T023-Axis Forts
T024-Axis Fuel Dump
T025-Axis Control Tower
T026-Axis Ammunition Bunker
T027-Axis Hangar
T028-Axis Barrack
T029-Axis HQ Building
T030-Axis Club
T031-Axis Briefing Room
T032-Tree 1
T033-Trees 1
T034-Tree 2
T035-Trees 2
T036-Tree 3
T037-Trees 3
T038-Tree 4
T039-Trees 4
T040-3D Forest 2
T041-Axis Warehouse
T042-3D Forest 3
T043-Allied Train Engine
T044-Allied Train Tender
T045-Allied Train Boxcar
T046-Allied Train Oil Tanker
T047-Allied Train Flatbed
T048-Allied Train Flatbed Tank
T049-Allied Train Flatbed Flak
T050-Allied Fuel Truck
T051-Allied Truck
T052-Allied Covered Truck
T053-Allied Half-track
T054-Jeep
T055-Panther Tank
T056-Sherman Tank
T057-Allied Transport ship
T058-Church 1
T059-City 1
T060-City 2
T061-City 3
T062-City 4
T063-Cathedral 1
T064-Farm 1
T065-Castle 1
T066-Château 1
T067-Windmill 1
T068-House 1
T069-Parachutist
T070-People milling / 3dz not used
T071-People marching / 3dz not used
T072-Allied Destroyer
T073-Allied ***Last in 1.2***
T074-Axis Fuel truck
T075-Axis Truck
T076-Axis Truck covered
T077-Axis Half-track
T078-Axis Kubelwagen
T079-Axis Train Engine
T080-Axis Train Tender
T081-Axis Train Boxcar
T082-Axis Train Oil Tanker
T083-Axis Train Flatbed
T084-Axis Train Flatbed Panther
T085-Axis Train Flatbed Flak
T086-Axis Transport ship
T087-Axis Destroyer **Last in 1.28**
T088-Allied Oil Plant
T089-Allied Ball Bearing Plant
T090-Allied Chemical Plant
T091-Allied Aircraft Factory
T092-Allied Armaments Factory
T093-Allied Rail Yard
T094-Allied Ship Yard
T095-Allied Heavy AAA
T096-Allied Light AAA
T097-Allied Oil Storage
T098-Allied Radar Station
T099-Allied Radar Tower
T100-Allied Forts
T101-Allied Fuel Dump
T102-Allied Air Control Tower
T103-Allied Ammunition Bunker
T104-Allied Hangar 1
T105-Allied Barrack
T106-Allied HQ Building
T107-Allied O-Club
T108-Allied Briefing Room
T109-Line of trees 1
T110-Line of trees 2
T111-Tree 5
T112-Trees 5
T113-Tree 6
T114-Trees 6
T115-Tree 7
T116-Trees 7
T117-Tree 8
T118-Trees 8
T119-Church 2
T120-City 5
T121-City 6
T122-City 7
T123-City 8
T124-Cathedral 2
T125-Farm 2
T126-Castle 2
T127-Manor house
T128-Windmill 2
T129-House 2
T130-House 3
T131-House 4
T132-House 5
T133-Farm 3
T134-Town hall 1
T135-Town hall 2
T136-Pub 1
T137-Pub 2
T138-Allied Ground target aircraft 1
T139-Allied Ground target aircraft 2
T140-Allied Ground target aircraft 3
T141-Allied Ground target aircraft 4
T142-Allied Ground target aircraft 5
T143-Axis Ground target aircraft 1
T144-Axis Ground target aircraft 2
T145-Axis Ground target aircraft 3
T146-Axis Ground target aircraft 4
T147-Axis Ground target aircraft 5
T148-Allied Barrage balloon
T149-Axis Barrage balloon
T150-Allied Tent large single
T151-Allied Tent group
T152-Axis Tent large single
T153-Axis Tent group
T154-Allied Bomb dump
T155-Axis Bomb dump
T156-Aircraft Revetment 1
T157-Aircraft Revetment 2
T158-Aircraft Revetment 3
T159-Allied Airfield Ambulance
T160-Axis Airfield Ambulance
T161-Allied Fuel Bowser
T162-Axis Fuel bowser
T163-Allied Hanger 2
T164-Allied Hanger 3
T165-Allied Hanger 4
T166-Axis Hanger 2
T167-Axis Hanger 3
T168-Axis Hanger 4
T169-Allied DUKW
T170-Allied Artillery 1
T171-Allied Artillery 2
T172-Axis Artillery 1
T173-Axis Artillery 2
T174-Allied Slit trench straight
T175-Allied Slit trench curved L/H
T176-Allied Slit trench curved R/H
T177-Axis Slit trench straight
T178-Axis Slit trench curved L/H
T179-Axis Slit trench curved R/H
T180-Barbed wire
T181-Tank traps
T182-Allied Bunker complex
T183-Axis Bunker complex
T184-V2 Rocket launcher
T185-Allied Warehouse
T186-Allied Ship Tanker
T187-Allied Ship Tramp steamer
T188-Allied Landing craft
T189-Allied Troop ship
T190-Allied Cruiser/Battleship
T-Allied Carrier
T-Allied Patrol Boat
T-Allied Sub
T-Axis Ship Tanker
T-Axis Ship Tramp steamer
T-Axis Barge
T-Axis Troop ship
T-Axis Cruiser/Battleship
T199-Axis E Boat
T200-Axis U Boat
T201-Axis Carrier
T202-Allied Motorcycle
T203-Allied Tank 2
T204-Allied Mobile AA
T205-British Bus
T206-British Horse and cart
T207-British Civilian lorry
T208-British Civilian car
T209-British Bicycle
T210-Axis Motorcycle
T211-Axis Tank 2
T212-Axis Mobile AA 1
T213-Axis mobile AA 2
T214-Axis Bicycle
T215-European Bus
T216-European Horse and cart
T217-European Civilian lorry
T218-European Civilian car
T219-European Bicycle
T220-Gestapo HQ
T221-POW camp
T222-Axis Flak Tower
T223-Berlin Building 1
T224-Berlin Building 2
T225-Paris Building 1
T226-Paris Building 2
T227-London Building 1
T228-London Building 2
T229-London Building 3
T230-Destroyed Church
T231-Destroyed House
T232-Destroyed Houses
T233-Allied Sea Fort / flak tower
T234-Pilot in Dingy
T235-Railway station
T236-Allied Road Block / Check point
T237-Axis Road Block / Check point
T238-Telegraph poles
T239-Hedge
T240-Wall
T241-Fence
T242-Oil pump / Nodding Donkey
T243-Allied Shipyard facility 1
T244-Allied port facility 2
T245-Axis Shipyard facility 1
T246-Axis port facility 2
T247-Axis bunker complex
T248-Gun Emplacement
T249-Graveyard-Civilian
T250-Dam
T251-Water tower-civilian 1
T252-Water tower-civilian 2
T253-Allied Military Water tower
T254-Axis Military Water tower

Wonderful stuff there, John. Incredible improvement in variety.

Thanks for compiling the list.






I'm concerned that some of the tmods at Talley-ho might cause CTD's when using 1.28 as we've just discovered in the NG campaign.

I guess there's no way to tell until we try using them with 1.28.

But this is a good start.

Col,
Looking good to me. Was wondering if it would be possible to leave
some open, call them misc. or whatever, so that if someone came up
with something new there would be room.

Maybe someone could design that elusive Sub I'm chasing.
Subs would give a reason for Patrol Planes like the PBY, Kingfisher etc.
Aircraft carriers is another possibility for the Pacific mods or even
a sink the Bismark mini-campagain.

Also and purely for discussion, is it wise to mix WWI and WWII.
Shouldn't they be seperate so they don't show up in each others
scenarios by mistake? Seems I read, and I could be wrong, that
MrJelly commented that WWI would need its own exe.

Just my thoughts, you all know better then I about TMODs, I just
design screens and look for things that don't exist. <------


MadProf

Hi MadProf.

Well, it's just simpler to have one list to work from, and if you look at the descriptions, they are open to interpretation.

WWI had tanks, motor, and horse drawn vehicles, artillery etc, etc, just as was the case in WWII, just different ones. So the list is flexible, and no need to have separate lists. The only real difference between the WWI , and WWII exe's is the take offs. Everything else is the same, or dictated by outside data files like the flight, load out, etc.

Shreck, you asked for 2 Dams and a Military cemetery. I left in one Dam, and one cemetery, but they could easily be used for other things. Your water towers, and Port facilities are in, although I called one of them a dockyard, to add a bit of variety. Hope you don't mind.

Hi Col,

My bad, as the kids like to say, I missed the sub and carrier when I read your list.
Told ya I was

Explanation of WWI and WWII makes sense also.

I probably should stay out of these kinds of discussions, as I have no idea
how the various tmods get assigned or show up or don't show up.

I do think though a standardized list makes the most sense so that something
doesn't get designed to replace a "Battleship" with a "swimming pool". Just a
humorous example, really don't expect that to happen.

I shall let you more knowledgeable chaps carry on.

MadProf

Hi MadProf.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions mate. Probably there are others who would like to know the reasoning behind the list. When EAW was designed, it must have been far harder to decide what to put in, bearing in mind what limitations there were. Just because we can now have 256 Tmods, does not allow us everything we would like, but we certainly have a much bigger selection for world builders to play with.

Just as well really, as Mr jelly suggested in another place:



I'm happy with 256.

not a prob Col.
BTW,the base 3DZ for the DUKW could use a bit of your style of 3DZ sorting,y'know deletion of the odd elements as you did with the steyr 3DZ,do you have have any spare modding time to sort it?

Hi Ray.

I don't think there is a link between 1.28 and 3dz's, but the 3dz's themselves, on there own are quite capable of causing a CTD on their own. Bad RS, built in errors, or textures, are the normal culprits. It's going to be a big job to test, and check every Tmod, especially the ones going into the new list, but we need too. Simple re skins, can be ignored, but "tweaked 3dz's" will need checking, as you found out with my Ambulance.

yeah but.....

The NG campaign only crashes with 1.28.

I can fly the exact same mission with 1.26 and I don't get the "lines to infinity" that we've always associated with 3dz errors.


I'm not knocking 1.28, quite the opposite. I really wanted to get this campaign upgraded to 1.28 since it holds lots of untapped possibilities and potential. The extended tmod list would really be the cherry on the sundae.

I'll talk to the MOD Squad guys about doing some of the tmod testing and see if we can't get started making a list of compliant tmods from around the EAW world.

Hi John

Nice list!

I really like all these new Tmods but I thought that the idea with 1.28 was to have it compatible with older versions. With these new Tmods it won’t be and therefore I think it’s better to implement it in version 1.3.
It is essential to know how all this affects the campaign system. For example when the default factories, ship yard and radar now all are axis and the allied factories, ship yard and radar are in new slots...
In default eaw many default targets need to be swapped and the campaign needs to be edited and off course thoroughly tested.

I wonder how EAW will run with all this stuff loaded...

Cheers

Hi Ray.

Check the sites first, because there are already a lot of them around, but there is also a hell of a lot to build from scratch. I thought the simple way to get this new list up and running quickly, would be to use duplicated re skinned default models for things like trees, parked planes and city buildings. Things like Tank traps, and other buildings, will have to be built, but don't forget PAW, and FD, for ships, which just need skins.

Guys,

First off...don't worry about leaving spaces... were there any spaces in the original set ?.... no, because we can put our own tmods into any slot we like and swap them with the defaults, this is just a default set like in the original, so it makes no sense to leave spaces. Bear in mind that although we have mentioned 'axis' and 'allied' on many of the slots, other than those that are used in the ship and land convoys, that is only a generic term and the buildings can be used on either side of the frontline indiscriminately to create complexes of factories or divisional barracks complexes etc...


Col, contentious ?... how could you think it would be contentious to allocate 21 slots to trees and 4 slots to tank types ?... in a military game !!!... lol ...


but seriously, it might be better to have more city building types to vary the towns more, and fewer tree types perhaps ?... and perhaps a lot more vehicles slots to vary the ground forces available and at least make sure we have 2 infantry sprites so that the footsoldiers can be varied by the frontline position using the same system as determines the nationality of the convoys perhaps...

VOnOben,

if the tmods aren't used in the tardata or ttd they will not appear, but it is still backwards compatible since their being presence wont cause a ctd..., unless the tarnames str is used with a 1.2 exe.. but I thought by 'backwardly compatible' we meant that 1.28 could use existing mods not that 1.2 could necessarily use 1.28 mods...


cheers,



Pobs

Hi Pobs.

The logic was simple for trees. They are the most used Tmod in the game to fill in the wide open spaces. I thought more trees would bring a wider variety to the land, but if it's more tanks you'd like, then I'm quite happy to delete 6 trees and give you an extra 2 tank slots per side, plus your two extra sprites [British and German soldiers?].

So, we now need 3 extra Allied and 3 extra Axis tanks.

Churchill Infantry Tank,
Matilda Infantry Tank,
Cromwell Cruiser Tank

PzKpfw III
Jagdpanzer Tiger-Elefant
PzKpfw V Panther

Perhaps?

Any more Changes?

Amended list:

T088-Allied Oil Plant
T089-Allied Ball Bearing Plant
T090-Allied Chemical Plant
T091-Allied Aircraft Factory
T092-Allied Armaments Factory
T093-Allied Rail Yard
T094-Allied Ship Yard
T095-Allied Heavy AAA
T096-Allied Light AAA
T097-Allied Oil Storage
T098-Allied Radar Station
T099-Allied Radar Tower
T100-Allied Forts
T101-Allied Fuel Dump
T102-Allied Air Control Tower
T103-Allied Ammunition Bunker
T104-Allied Hangar 1
T105-Allied Barrack
T106-Allied HQ Building
T107-Allied O-Club
T108-Allied Briefing Room
T109-Line of trees 1
T110-Line of trees 2
T111-Allied Tank 2
T112-Allied Tank 3
T113-Axis Tank 2
T114-Axis Tank 3
T115-Allied Soldier No 3dz used
T116-Axis Soldier No 3dz used
T117-Tree 5
T118-Trees 5
T119-Church 2
T120-City 5
T121-City 6
T122-City 7
T123-City 8
T124-Cathedral 2
T125-Farm 2
T126-Castle 2
T127-Manor house
T128-Windmill 2
T129-House 2
T130-House 3
T131-House 4
T132-House 5
T133-Farm 3
T134-Town hall 1
T135-Town hall 2
T136-Pub 1
T137-Pub 2
T138-Allied Ground target aircraft 1
T139-Allied Ground target aircraft 2
T140-Allied Ground target aircraft 3
T141-Allied Ground target aircraft 4
T142-Allied Ground target aircraft 5
T143-Axis Ground target aircraft 1
T144-Axis Ground target aircraft 2
T145-Axis Ground target aircraft 3
T146-Axis Ground target aircraft 4
T147-Axis Ground target aircraft 5
T148-Allied Barrage balloon
T149-Axis Barrage balloon
T150-Allied Tent large single
T151-Allied Tent group
T152-Axis Tent large single
T153-Axis Tent group
T154-Allied Bomb dump
T155-Axis Bomb dump
T156-Aircraft Revetment 1
T157-Aircraft Revetment 2
T158-Aircraft Revetment 3
T159-Allied Airfield Ambulance
T160-Axis Airfield Ambulance
T161-Allied Fuel Bowser
T162-Axis Fuel bowser
T163-Allied Hanger 2
T164-Allied Hanger 3
T165-Allied Hanger 4
T166-Axis Hanger 2
T167-Axis Hanger 3
T168-Axis Hanger 4
T169-Allied DUKW
T170-Allied Artillery 1
T171-Allied Artillery 2
T172-Axis Artillery 1
T173-Axis Artillery 2
T174-Allied Slit trench straight
T175-Allied Slit trench curved L/H
T176-Allied Slit trench curved R/H
T177-Axis Slit trench straight
T178-Axis Slit trench curved L/H
T179-Axis Slit trench curved R/H
T180-Barbed wire
T181-Tank traps
T182-Allied Bunker complex
T183-Axis Bunker complex
T184-V2 Rocket launcher
T185-Allied Warehouse
T186-Allied Ship Tanker
T187-Allied Ship Tramp steamer
T188-Allied Landing craft
T189-Allied Troop ship
T190-Allied Cruiser/Battleship
T191-Allied Carrier
T192-Allied Patrol Boat
T193-Allied Sub
T194-Axis Ship Tanker
T195-Axis Ship Tramp steamer
T196-Axis Barge
T197-Axis Troop ship
T198-Axis Cruiser/Battleship
T199-Axis E Boat
T200-Axis U Boat
T201-Axis Carrier
T202-Allied Motorcycle
T203-Allied Tank 4
T204-Allied Mobile AA
T205-British Bus
T206-British Horse and cart
T207-British Civilian lorry
T208-British Civilian car
T209-British Bicycle
T210-Axis Motorcycle
T211-Axis Tank 4
T212-Axis Mobile AA 1
T213-Axis mobile AA 2
T214-Axis Bicycle
T215-European Bus
T216-European Horse and cart
T217-European Civilian lorry
T218-European Civilian car
T219-European Bicycle
T220-Gestapo HQ
T221-POW camp
T222-Axis Flak Tower
T223-Berlin Building 1
T224-Berlin Building 2
T225-Paris Building 1
T226-Paris Building 2
T227-London Building 1
T228-London Building 2
T229-London Building 3
T230-Destroyed Church
T231-Destroyed House
T232-Destroyed Houses
T233-Allied Sea Fort / flak tower
T234-Pilot in Dingy
T235-Railway station
T236-Allied Road Block / Check point
T237-Axis Road Block / Check point
T238-Telegraph poles
T239-Hedge
T240-Wall
T241-Fence
T242-Oil pump / Nodding Donkey
T243-Allied Shipyard facility 1
T244-Allied port facility 2
T245-Axis Shipyard facility 1
T246-Axis port facility 2
T247-Axis bunker complex
T248-Gun Emplacement
T249-Graveyard-Civilian
T250-Dam
T251-Water tower-civilian 1
T252-Water tower-civilian 2
T253-Allied Military Water tower
T254-Axis Military Water tower

so,when making a TMOD compatible with the 1.28 exe,how exactly does one name the TMODs and TPCs?
for example,the Mad Prof starts a thread about windmills,so I dash off to my EAW folder and find only the stock lr windmill,which i promptly remap to HR and chuck into the TMOD22 slot for testing using our gentlemens agreement of naming said files GRND**.TPC,GRND**S,GRND**D,and GRND**DS.TPC...with the 3DZs following their usual TMOD naming structure...
so,how do we name them when we add a digit?,in other words,starting at TMOD100_H.3DZ,would the corresponding TPC be GRND100.TPC,GRND100S.TPC,GRND100D.TPC,GRND100DS.TPC....?
etc.,etc.,etc.,.....
is this correct?
therefore,to make a 1.28 compatible TMOD,one should make...lets say a HR Windmill,available for both slots TMOD67,and TMOD128...is this correct?

Hi Shreck.

That is a good point. We need to test if longer than standard texture names work.

But if not, two things spring to mind.

First we could drop the D from GRND so the file names over 99 would be GRN***.tpc, which would retain the file name length.

Or change the code, so longer texture names do not cause a problem.

As things stand, and as we don't yet have any high numbers Tmods made, it would be simple just to drop the D.

What do you guys think?

Another question. Would tra effects on a limited number of models on the list be useful? I was thinking about lorries/cars/and a like with windows.

Yes, I think any naming structure based on G*.tpc will work okay.

We certainly need to keep the G prefix, and don't need to change the code in that respect.

Don't all Tmods currently incorporate transparency effects?

Moggy DCM

Moggy,

currently the ground models only have a single fully transparent colour, the Col is talking about adding a .tra file to the slot so it can have 'partial transparency' effects like glass in windows etc...

cheers,


Pobs

In that case, Yes Please.



Moggy DCM

Guys.

To add tra effects to certain slots, firstly we have to agree the full list.

Then tra links can be added for the slots which need them. For instance, trees and tanks don't need them, but houses and lorries do?

I don't know about city blocks, but I had an idea to add links, so distance models had a shining element though windows, which at night would look like houses with lights on from a distance, but when the model switched to H.3dz, the light element would be deleted, giving you the impression of Black Out, over the target.

Do you get my drift?

I don't want to sidetrack this discussion but would you be able to add the tra effects to the ORD**.3dz's, too?

Big deal? Little deal?

If it's a big deal, forget it, it's not that important but it might come in useful at some point.

Remember the hair pulling Woody and I went through when we made that C-47 "drop tank" for Silent Wings? We had to bodge something to get the props to look halfway decent.

My hats off to you all, some nice work happening here.

Now if someone wants to try making one of those new tmods, to see if
they'll work, ahhhh, how about: Big Ben

(have texture, need 3d modeller)

I don't know if the texture will work, but I can make it available
in pcx form if someone is interested in trying it. Have other
textures available also, when the time comes.


MadProf

Hi Ray.

No problem. GLIDER TO GLIDTR perhaps?

Hi MadProf.

Nice skin!

Got a plan of the building? 3dz is easy!

Edit: Big Ben is the Bell in the tower, not the building.

Col,
Oh, always thought the whole building and everything was just
normally known as Big Ben. Shows what us Yanks know.

As for the plan, ahhh, I have the texture, but no plan. Sorry.
(Check your pm)


MadProf

Hi Prof.

OK found a drawing. I'll make a start tonight, but can you email me the original PCX?

wingspl at yahoo dot com

What about other famous buildings?

Col,
Texture is on its way. Two copies one 16 million colours, and one
converted down to 8 bit, 256 colours.

As for other famous buildings, yes I have a few more.

MadProf

John,

Really just brainstorming on the ORD issue. I'm not sure what we'd use it for but we have a number of creative modders that might find a use for it.

So something more generic might be a better naming convention.

I need a fancy mosque.



And a crusader castle





Moggy DCM

Hi Ray.

The problem with using a "normal" texture name is if you use a standard skin, the exe will always look for the matching tra, and if non is found the exe will CTD. That's why I suggested something different, special, just for Glider mods.

What is your idea for a texture link name?

Col, Moggy,
I'm leaving shortly for a golf tournament, then gone for a golf holiday till next
Tuesday evening. I'll see what I have when I get back.

I do know I have the Eiffel tower and some buildings in Berlin plus others for
London.

Moggy, your request on the other hand, not sure I can fill, but I'll look.


MadProf

I was thinking of something like how you linked the shadow files.

Maybe that's all you need to do. Link the ORD files to the shadow file.

Hi Ray.

What texture names are in use for HR ordinance? Have you used Ord 3dz number = Ord number TPC? If so, either you will have to upload a dummy tra file to each 3dz, or we need to use a non standard name to avoid CTD's.


I've added several new links to the current aircraft files. Can't you use one of them for the glider tug? You now have in the current 1.28 exe PEX = PRA, SEX = SRA, TEX = TRA, V = VTR , Y = YTR, and SHADOW = SHADOWRA for any shadows on planes or Tmods.

Yes, usually when I make an ORD.3dz I make a corresponding .TPC file with the same name, mostly so I can keep track of what's what.

The glider tug is seen in the game as a drop tank ORD**.3dz so, would any of those new links work?

Hi Pobs

Yes that was the point I was trying to make. It all depends how far you are going to make this in 1.28.
If the Tmods are included as 3dz files but not incorporated in eaw_ttd.dat, target dat-files or campaign dat-files then there will be axis factories, axis radar facilities, axis airfield buildings in Britain and so in.
That will look strange so what’s the point having the 3dz files but not placing them in the dat files?

There’s also the problem you mentioned earlier with factories and campaign and production points. The exe must be changed to understand that the T094-Allied Ship Yard is a shipyard so that the convoys will be triggered and also to understand which T-mods are factories etc.
If these changes are made in the exe it’s not compatible with older versions any longer, is it?

Or have I misunderstood?

Col. Gibbon:
Why is the T8-Shipyard changed to a Axis factory?
There is no Axis shipyard any longer...

Cheers

Hi VonOben.

This is the original Default Tmod list by Charles. Note: Tmod08 is a Warehouse.



My list, there are two Shipyards, and two docks:
T243-Allied Shipyard facility 1
T244-Allied port facility 2
T245-Axis Shipyard facility 1
T246-Axis port facility 2



As to the other question, Jelly needs to input some info.

Col. check your mail,as I have sent you that DUKW 3DZ needing sorting....if you could,at your convenience,do that thing you do to it...I would greatly appreciate it.....thanks

Done, check your Email.

Hi Per,

yes it is a transition state really, we are trying to define a 'default' list but of course they wont be used by existing data files but they wont cause ctd's they just wont appear.... but with this set agreed then we can set about making new dat files to use all the slots in the default world and as you say we can define in the exe which slots are used for calculating resource points and convoys etc, and list those so that modders know how to use them, the new dat files will not then be backwardly compatible because they will be calling up tmods that aren't available in 1.2, but that is life, we cant make 1.2 exes that use the features developed in 1.28..


cheers,



Pobs

thanks Col.,DUKW2 received and being skinned

BTW,the different theaters should have different breakdowns regards TMODs,they should NOT be truly inter-changable....i.e.1.28E for European theater,and 1.28P for Pacific theater etc...........
just my .02 worth

Hi Col. Gibbon

Here are the tartypes from EAW 1.2 where Tmod08 is a ship yard I don't know where Charles got that list from....

NULL
Oil Plant
Ball Bearing Plant
Chemical Plant
Aircraft Factory
Air Field
Araments Factory
Rail Yard
Ship Yard
U-Boat Pen
V-1 Launch Site
Road Bridge Stone
Road Bridge Wood
Road Bridge Iron
Rail Bridge Stone
Rail Bridge Wood
Rail Bridge Iron
Heavy AAA
Light AAA
Oil Storage
Radar Station
Radar Tower
Spare1
Forts
Fuel Dump
Air Control Tower
Ammunation Bunker
Hangar
Barrack
HQ Building
O-Club
Briefing Room
NA
NA
NA
NA
NA
NA
NA
NA
NA
Warehouse
Spare2
Train Engine
Train Tender
Train Boxcar
Train Oil Tanker
Train Flatbed
Train Flatbed Tanks
Train Flatbed Guns
Fuel Truck
Truck
Truck
Half-track
Staff Car
Panther Tank
Sherman Tank
Transport
Church
City1
City2
City3
City4
Cathedral
Farm
Castle
Chateau
Windmill
Haystack
Parchutist
NA
NA
Destroyer
NA

Cheers

Shreckie,

don't worry about the pacific or other theatres other than to just make sure we have enough slots for the 'active' tmods ie those specifically named in the exe as being used for a specific calculation or function... all the rest are totally swappable for different scenarios just like the original set were.

For instance if we want carriers useable as airbases then we will need to have those slots specified in the exe and therefore they cant be used for other functions in other scenarios, but there will be very few so allocated.


cheers,


Pobs

The tartypes.str file has the names for display.
Trees are TMods which are not targets, so when you hit "E" or "Ctrl E" they do not appear. Hence a number of "NA" enrties appear in Charles' list. However, for modding you need to know the numerical entry which goes into tardata.dat, so a list with a heap of "NA" entries is useless when you want to place trees at cetrain points.

Jel

Hi John,

Good work. Clearly you are "up to your ears" in other projects at the moment, but is there any chance of re-activating the Hampden at some stage in the future?

Cheers

Peter

The latest landmark Tmod?

Guys, time to come clean.

That pic I posted is from CFS3, not EAW!

Do you Guys think I would post a picture of such an appalling model? But it does serve to show EAW is not so far behind some of the other Sims out there, and way ahead of CFS3 Tmods!

The screen was one of a set the MadProf sent me so I could clone a 3dz of the CFS model. I was expecting to see a far more advanced model, but it looks like CFS3 models are retro FD in detail.

The real EAW model.

Well, CFS3, BEAT THIS!



There is only one bit of original CFS texture left, and that's the second big tower. All the rest have been redone using photos of the real building. I'm not sure if I'm going to have many points left for the fiddly bits, as the building is so big, but I'll do what I can.

It still needs re scaling and finishing off, but 253 nodes, and 204 elements later, it's starting to look the part. Just a shame there is no nodes left, to add all the nice bits.

Lovely work Col,

and a nice template for a range of new building types I am sure


cheers,


Pobs

Col,
Excellent work, my hats off to you. I missed this post a few days ago
so wanted to extend my gratulations to a job well done. Many thanks
my friend, I know from our correspondence it wasn't easy.



MadProf

Hi MadProf.

I'm still standing by for some more textures.

Hi Col,

Ok, I'll start with some of the other historical London buildings.
Give me a day or two, I need to convert them from dds files to pcx
files.


MadProf

Col,
Check your email, sent you some more textures to play with.

Btw, you're pm is full so had to post this here.


MadProf

This needs to be discussed again.

Alright, I'll get the ball rolling.

Pobs and I started to compile a pretty good list back a while. We were going to make a new target set for the default EAW world. Unfortunately my wife took a turn for the worse and I had to drop it. We've never been in the same place EAWwise since then to pick it up.

There are about 220 tmod models ready to go in one of my subfolders on the Gen's server.

Stuff like this:












There's also a bunch of other stuff like:

Small buildings
Forts
Bunkers
Beach obstacles
Trenches
Radar installations
Radio towers
Cranes
Docks and wharfs
Trains

Many of these have more than one model. Meaning, as in the case of the dumps, that there is a small, medium and large model for more variety.

Another one of our ideas was to have two or three of the same truck, tank or half track in different slots but with different destroyed models so that when you look at a destroyed convoy the wreckage wouldn't be the same for each vehicle destroyed.

Actually, I think we did it with a few ships too.


To be clear, there's a lot of stuff out there in EAW land for modders to work with. It all doesn't have to be done from scratch.

In many cases I improved existing tmods from around the EAW world. For instance the POW camp was originally a VB model that I added buildings to. The towed artillery TMOD was made by joining an existing truck with an existing cannon. ( Not as simple as it might seem to the casual observer since to get it to work you have to have two models with working rendering sequences. Which as EAW veterans know is NOT the usual circumstance.)

I made the ground planes by using middle distance models from the existing plane sets and tilted them with a utility program made just for that.

So there should be more than enough models available to fill up a new list. It's just a matter of agreeing what goes where.

Ah, 3dz's are fine, but have the 256 slot numbers have been allocated?

If no one has written the 256 Tmod properties list, then one, without the other, gives you nought.

Uh, duh, of course not but having a boatload of usable models sure will help the discussion move from the theoretical to the practical.

OK Ray. So, what is the full list of available Tmod models?

First trick is to agree a list order, then allocate the models correct slot names and textures, then once that's done we can start writing the full 256 properties list, which needs to be as follows:

Target Type
Max Damage
Repair Time
Repair Rate
Desr Mod
Smk
Armor
Mdl
Ppl
Rnd
Width Feet
Height Feet
Length Feet
Radius Feet
Score Exp
Size Dist
Detail Distance Feet
Maximum Vis Miles
Smk Off
Type
Target Type

It's very obvious we'll need an editor to produce a working table with 256 x 21 fields per slot. Quite how we implement Ralf's 4 types of Tmod is not clear to me, but I guess we'll find that out as we go.

There is an editor. Pretty sure Jel made it and I used it for the highly customized SPAW target set.

However, some of the characteristics for some TMOD slots must get defined in the exe.

For instance, I tried to get the destroyer/train mod to work in SPAW so that there could be random ships patrolling about the SPAW world.

I edited the rail lines so that they wound in and out around the myriad island groups. The problem was that no matter how I set the various characteristics with the editor the model blew up. It had to do with the water tiles but I never got it straightened out so I moved on.

As for the list, I'll see if I can find the one Pobs and I were working on.

Yep, that's it. Spent many an hour fiddling around with the values.

The ones I didn't have any success with were #34 and #36.

With #34 my idea was to arm bunkers and trenches so that they'd shoot at you with light caliber guns as defined by #37. Didn't work.

As for #36 I tried all the various combinations to get the destroyer/train to work. Again, no luck.

Plus some characteristics are unknown to me. Things like "short bridge vs long bridge" in #34

Wow! I actually found the list!



Null 0
POWERPLANT 1
BALL PLANT 2
CHEM PLANT 3
AIRCRAFT Factory 4
AIRFIELD 5
ARMAMENT Factory 6
RAILYARD 7
SHIPYARD 8
U-BOAT PEN 9
V-1 SITE 10
Suspension Bridge Center 11
Road Arc Bridge ramp 12
Road Arc Bridge center 13
Rail Arc Bridge ramp 14
Rail Arc Bridge center 15
Suspension Bridge Ramp 16
Single HEAVY AA 17
Single LIGHT AA 18
Large OIL STORAGE 19
RADAR STATION 20
Large RADAR TOWER 21
Starter Vehicle 22
Forts 23
Small Fuel Dump 24
AIR Control Tower 25
Small AMMO dump 26
Concrete Hangar 27
BARRACK 28 ( Not Obama )
HQ BUILDING 29
Mess Hall 30
BRIEFING ROOM 31
Heavy AA (Dual) / FLAK TOWER 32
Field Headquarters 33
Rec Hall 34
Row of trees 35
TREE 3 36
TREES 3 37
TREE 4 38
TREES 4 39
U Trench 40
Corner trench 41
Straight Trench 42
Allied locomotive / Axis 43
Allied tender / Axis 44
Allied boxcar / Axis 45
Allied oil tanker / Axis 46
Allied flatbed / Axis 47
Allied flatbed tanks / Axis 48
Allied flatbed guns / Axis 49
BR Open truck / Axis 50
US Open truck / Axis 51
US covered truck / Axis 52
US halftrack / Axis 53
US Jeep / / Axis 4x4 54
US Medium Tank / Axis 55
US medium Tank / Axis 56
Allied Freighter(moving) / Axis 57
CHURCH 58
CITY 1 59
CITY 2 60
CITY 3 61
CITY 4 62
CATHEDRAL 63
FARM 64
Industrial Building 65
Industrial Building 66
Industrial Building 67
Village block 68
PARACHUTIST 69
PEOPLE MILLING 70
PEOPLE MARCHING 71
US destroyer (Moving)/ Axis 72
Small oil storage 73
US fuel truck / Axis 74
US fuel truck / Axis 75
US covered truck / Axis 76
US covered truck / Axis 77
US Truck Towed Gun / Axis 78
British Truck Towed Gun / Axis 79
British fuel truck / Axis 80
British covered truck / Axis 81
British covered truck / Axis 82
US halftrack / / Axis 83
British car / Axis 84
US halftrack Towed gun / Axis 85
EMPTY 86
horse cart 87
Short Dock 88
Long Dock 89
British medium tank / Axis 90
British medium tank / Axis 91
US heavy tank / Axis 92
British heavy tank / Axis 93
Motorcycle 94
Ambulance 95
P38 / ME 410 96
P51 / 109 97
P47 / 190 98
Hurricane / 109 99
Spitfire / 109 100
Tempest /190 101
Horsa Glider 102
B25 / Ju88 103
B26 / Do17 104
Albemarle / Ju88 105
B17 / He111 106
B24 / He111 107
C47 / Ju52 108
US Flag / Axis flag 109
Canadian Flag / Axis flag 110
British Flag / Axis flag 111
Windsock 112
Allied Freighter (Stationary)/ Axis 113
Allied Freighter (Moving) / Axis 114
Allied Freighter (Stationary)/ Axis 115
Allied Freighter (Moving)/ Axis 116
Allied Freighter (Stationary)/ Axis 117
Allied Freighter (Moving)/ Axis 118
Allied Tanker (Moving)/ Axis 119
Allied Tanker (Moving)/ Axis 120
Allied Tanker (Moving)/ Axis 121
Allied Tanker (Stationary)/ Axis 122
Allied Troopship (Moving)/ Axis 123
Allied Troopship (Stationary)/ Axis 124
Allied Troopship (Moving)/ Axis 125
Allied Troopship (Stationary)/ Axis 126
Allied Ammo ship (Moving)/ Axis 127
Allied Ammo ship (Stationary)/ Axis 128
Allied Ammo ship (Moving)/ Axis 129
Allied Ammo ship (Stationary)/ Axis 130
British Patrol Boat (Moving)/ Axis 131
British Patrol Boat (Stationary)/ Axis 132
US Patrol Boat (Moving)/ Axis 133
US Patrol Boat (Stationary/ Axis134
US Destroyer Escort (Moving)/ Axis 135
US Destroyer Escort (Stationary)/ Axis 136
British Destroyer Escort (Moving)/ Axis 137
British Destroyer Escort (Stationary)/ Axis 138
US Destroyer (Stationary)/ Axis 139
BR Destroyer (Moving)/Axis 140
BR Destroyer (Stationary)/ Axis 141
Trawler (Moving )/ Axis 142
Trawler (Stationary)/ Axis 143
US Light Cruiser (Moving)/ Axis 144
US Light Cruiser (Stationary)/ Axis 145
British Light Cruiser (Moving)/ Axis 146
British Light Cruiser (Stationary)/ Axis 147
US Heavy Cruiser (Moving)/ Axis 148
US Heavy Cruiser (Stationary)/ Axis 149
British Heavy Cruiser (Moving)/ Axis 150
British Heavy Cruiser (Stationary)/ Axis 151
Allied battleship (Moving) 152
Allied battleship (Stationary) 153
Axis battleship (Moving) 154
Axis battleship (Stationary)155
Sub Tender (Moving)/ Axis 156
Sub Tender (Stationary)/ Axis 157
Sub (Moving)/ Axis 158
Sub (Stationary)/ Axis 159
Barge (Moving)/ Axis 160
Barge (Stationary)/ Axis 161
Landing craft (Moving)/ Axis 162
Landing craft (Stationary)/ Axis 163
double light AA 164
triple light AA 165
double heavy AA 166
Quad heavy AA 167
Fort 168
Hut 169
Revetment 170
Artillery 171
Artillery 172
Tent 173
Tent 174
Tent 175
Stone wall 1 176
Barbed wire 177
Telegraph poles 178
Stone wall 2 179
pill box 180
Workshop 181
Officer quarters 182
Control Tower 183
barracks 184
barracks 185
Hangar 186
Belfast Hangar 187
Hangar 188
Tall Radio tower 189
Short Radio Tower 190
Short Radar tower 191
Medium ammo dump 192
Large ammo dump 193
Two wooden crates 194
Four wooden crates 195
Supply dump 196
Field Hospital 197
Four oil drums 198
Medium fuel dump 199
Large fuel dump 200
Large Crane 201
Small crane 202
Wurzburg 203
Garage 204
Allied locomotive / Axis 205
Allied locomotive / Axis 206
Allied tender/ Axis 207
Allied tender/ Axis 208
Allied boxcar/ Axis 209
Allied boxcar/ Axis 210
Allied oil tanker/ Axis 211
Allied oil tanker/ Axis 212
Allied flatbed/ Axis 213
Allied flatbed tanks/ Axis 214
Allied flatbed guns/ Axis 215
Allied Passenger/ Axis 216
Allied Passenger/ Axis 217
Allied Passenger/ Axis 218
ROAD BRIDGE 219
ROAD BRIDGE 220
RAIL BRIDGE 221
RAIL BRIDGE 222
house 223
house 224
house 225
Parliament 226
Eifel Tower 227
Branderbuger Tor 228
Reichschancellory 229
Tower Bridge 230
Dam 231
Dam 232
City Block 6 233
City Block 7 234
City Block 8 235
Railway Station 236
Coastal Def building 237
Coastal Def building 238
Coastal Def building 239
Coastal Def building 240
Beach obstacle 241
EMPTY 242
Small Warehouse 243
Bunker 244
POW camp 245
Large Warehouse 246
Sangar 247
FACTORY COMPLEX 248
Axis carrier Island 249
Allied carrier island 250
Allied carrier island 251
Axis carrier hull 252
Allied carrier hull 253
Allied carrier hull 254


A few notes:

1 - Wherever I have Allied / Axis listed that slot can have two different models. The Standard TMOD will show up on the Allied side of the frontline and the TMOG modle with the same number will show up on the Axis side of the line. Remember that the models use the same data table so the models have to be similar in size, shape and function with similar hit bubble sizes and destruction points.

2 - Where you see (moving) after a ship model name that means the model has a wake attached. It's not actually moving though as you would see in a convoy attack assignment. The models without wakes are for placement in harbors. As with the multiple truck models you can have similar ships with very different destroyed models so a ruined convoy has some variety.

3- Note that capital ships each have their own slots so they can be named specifically in the TARTYAPES file. I'm not sure what our reasoning was for making the carriers two piece models. Also, there are a few capital buildings included that can also have their own names included in the TARTYPES list.

4 - There are two other TMOD types that Ralf added that only show up near the frontline but I don't know what they're for, why they were added or what their four letter designation is. As it is, using just the TMOD/TMOG system it's possible to have 512 different models. This would go up to 1024 if the entire system is utilized. That's a LOT of models.

5 - Bridges are two parts. The main bridge and the ramp leading to the bridge. Forewarned, it's a bear getting them lined up using the target editor.

Great Ray!

Now a few comments.

If this is going to be for WW2 Europe, with the exception of the Straights of Dover, and North Sea, there was no Naval action to speak of in Home waters, so the inclusion of so many ships is a bit unnecessary. No US PT boats, but E-boats and RN MB's.

Barges, Tugs, and small Steamers, is about all you would see.

There are a few other points I'd like to mention, but I need to go to sleep, because it's first day back to school for the kids in the morning, and it's going to be a hard start in the morning a 7am for them, and me.

Hi,

yup we do need to rethink this list with the advent of Knegel's '4 models per slot' option. For instance, we do not need any 'side-specific' models... what I mean is that we can put an 'axis destroyer' and an 'allied destroyer', and a frontline axis destroyer, and a 'frontline allied destroyer' all in the same slot, this would mean for instance that the list above has the capacity for 47 x 4 ship types as it stands, which seems a little bit high to me !!

I also think that the list will be specifically for the default world since any new world can define their own tmod list and tmod table.. with certain exceptions (see below)

we need to think more generically for the slot definitions, not to fix them on specific models but to think rather of 'target types' as defined by the size and strength of the target since all four models in a slot carry the same hit bubble and tmod table characteristics...

sooo, we might have two 'battleship' slots for instance with 4 german and 4 allied models available for them...

4 tree slots with 4 tree types common to the allied and axis models but with, let's say, 3 destroyed tree types for the frontal zone so a proportion of the trees in the front area are destroyesd, same with buildings....

to be honest we are now embarrassed with slots for our models and we can seriously consider which ones to use for unique models used only once in the world, to differentiate our towns for instance.

One consideration first though, is to make a list of the fixed tmod slots..... certain slots are defined in the exe for specific uses, we need to clarify if we can designate ANY model slot as a 'moving model' for the purposes of adding to convoys for instance ?, can any model go in a bridge slot ? or are Bridges a special case because of their links to the road and rail crossing tiles, where they appear automatically ?? ( one of the reasons that they weren't used as targets in the original game I think)

We need to get that list done first before anything else so we don't waste time with slots that are predefined in their use by the exe for the campaign element of the game.


cheers


Pobs

Hi Pobs.

You seem to have a different understanding to Ralf's system from me.

I thought there were four types of Tmod, and each one of the 256 could be one of the four. Thus we only had 256 slots, which needed to be split by four types, so each type had a model allocated to it, not 256 slots with 4 models per slot.

Or have I got it completely wrong?

If your right, we have thousands of Tmods to build! H,L,D,and S.3dz's would be 4096, plus textures! Are we all young enough to build so many models??

I found Ralf's original post regarding the implementation of his new ground object system.

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:03 pm



I'm sure it makes sense, just I can't grasp the logic behind this system.

It seems, 2 years ago, we spent a lot of time going nowhere, and we are still in the fog created by these changes.

NOT!


I included the TMOD/TMOG part of the system in SPAW to great affect.

For instance, as airifelds changed sides when the Allies pushed the Japanese north and east the flag, trucks and parked aircraft changed from Japanese to either British, Canadian or American models.

Same thing with the static sea convoys.

So we most certainly didn't go nowhere. ( Sorry 'bout the double negative )






OTOH, I'm not sure about the frontline part of the mod but I'm sure it will make sense when Ralf explains it.

I do agree that we've got a lot of building to do and of course, the list needs to be massaged a bit, we just left off in mid-discussion.

Very nice Tmods you have made Ray!

And so many! You have really been busy!

Well done!

Looking forward to seeing them in EAW!

Cheers

OK Guys.

Can we please go back to basics, and try and agree a setup for the default EAW game?

I know I keep #%&*$# on about this, but it would certainly help Ade too, as nearly all the model types for WWI and WWII would be the same.

Of course, a WWI tank would not look the same, but it's still a tank, so these slots would in effect be the same, and that would be the case for a majority of Tmod slots covering these two setups.

We really should concentrate on getting this sorted, so we can move forward, and start populating the extended list.

Once we have the general list sorted, we then need to think about how to implement these new options.

I have a French Church, Station, and a few others, plus a British Farm finished, with others in the works, which can be used for both setups.

I don't think my Houses of Parliament model survived my HD crash, unless I sent it to someone.

I agree with Ray!

I think the new Tmod-Tmog system is very clever!

I used it in FAW and it worked perfectly!

Cheers

Hi Per.

Do you understand how the full system works?

Tmod, and Tmog fair enough, but the others?

As I understand it, the system is pretty simple, each slot has 4 optional models depending on where it is relative to the frontline. The axis and allied models are self explanatory, the other two are allied frontline and axis frontline... these get substituted in the vicinity of the frontline if a model is present. With all 4 options the game only uses them if they are present otherwise it defaults back to the main model or the one in the cdf if none present, so missing any won't ctd the game.

As I mentioned earlier the first thing to establish is whether with the new options we still have any of the model slots specifically linked in the exe to certain characteristics, such as smoke, movement or AA capacity or like the bridges being automatrically included on certain tilenames in the map.... we need to list these first so we know which slots can be reallocated and which are fixed.


cheers,


Pobs

OK Pobs.

Perhaps the best way to proceed would be set up the basic game, and just populate it with Tmods, to get started. This would mean writing all the properties for all 256 slots, using Tony's editor.

Then we can start building models to fill in the missing types, and fiddle with models which need to be changeable.

I was thinking, RAF bases in the UK would have their own buildings, as would Europe, but none of them should change, just the user [AXIS, ALLIED]. Only the parked targets on airfields, like lorries and planes need to change with the front line.

Things like buildings, bridges, trees, civilian vehicles, etc would remain the same, but Allied and Axis convoys would change of course.

Railways are a special case. Three engines, and rolling stock are needed. One just for UK, and then one for Allied, and Axis trains in Europe. These models can be the same, just different skins.

Col G
Make some space in your mailbox here!
I still have not had a response to my replies to your PM at the Gen I sent you last Saturday, or any feedback on the software I put in your folder before sending them

Everyone

Are you aware that you do not need a complete TMod table?
The first data item is the TMod number, so it is quite possible to have a TMod.dat file with only the TMods referenced in tardata and eaw_ttd.dat.

BTW I'm still thinking about how to set up eaw_ttd.dat for TM2 if we have a 256 tile list, in which most do not yet exist.

Jel

The TMod.dat editor has a copy and paste function.
It is useful if a new TMod is made which is the same as, or very similiar to, an existing one.
A line can be copied, pasted and then minor adjustments made.

Jel

Hi Tony.

I cleared some space in my PM's so any messages should now get through.

On the subject of the TTD, that is what we are trying to sort out, and TM2 just adds another level to it.

I know you have a working airfield on your funny Island { Not in the right place to be Sodor. ], but have you been able to put a farm or trees on it?

No Col G.
Currently I'm in Lyon, and will have the weekend in Paris, then back to Lyon.
However, I'm not sure when I will get back home.
I do not have the source code for the TTD editor on my laptop, so I cannot extend it beyond the current 64 tiles for the time being.

Jel

Thanks Per, I appreciate the compliment.




Now, what is the reason for the frontline models?

Maybe an example would help me envision how they're used.

I was referring to your SimHQ box- it is much easier to post pics here and they do not have the inbox-outbox-sent folders like the Gen.

Jel

Hi,

the reason is that the eaw code itself support just a truck, there is no allied or axis truck, same goes for all MGOs and soldiers, but not the tanks. But we had just one tank type per side, to get a variation we had to exid the game and load the wanted skin.

With much work we could have implemented mgos for every side, but then backwardcompatibility would have been lost in an extreme way.
My simple solution is the frontline related tmod system. Additionelly to the mgos, as side effect, by this we can safe tmod slots for targets which never change the frontline. For example the church in London and Berlin can use the same tmod but look total different.
The by far more interesting option are the real frontline tmod skins. This skins only get used when the tmod is close to the frontline(around 1000m) . By this a french farm can look like a normal Farm in 1942, but in 1944, if its close to the frontline, there can be tank and cannons on it. Same can be done to trees etc. And so the frontline never will be empty, like it is now, no matter where it is right now.

We can add 500 more tmods, but without the frontline tmod system we only can place war related ones(ships, tanks, soldiers, damaged buildings, flak guns etc) in a good way when we have a absolut static frontline.

Pobs and Per already did explain how it work. Examples are in our release cdfs, otherwise we wouldnt have allied and axis mog skin, instead still a Panther would drive inside an US convoy through germany, like in eaw1.2.

Greetings,

Knegel

See, I'm still not clear on this.

If the TMOD/TMOG system switches models as the frontline moves then what added benefit is there to the frontline related models?

Before you start let me be absolutely clear.

This is NOT a criticism, merely a chance for me to get caught up with what's going on and how I might best be able to contribute new models.

I second that Ray.

Hi,

if no tmog(axis), tmgf(axis frontline) or tmof(allied frontline) of the related object is present, the tmod get used everywhere. So the Tmod is generic or allied, depending to the presence of the related axis files.

If no tmgf or tmof (real frontline object skins) is present, the related tmod and tmog get used.

If all sort of files are present, the tmgf and tmof get used if the object is placed within a range of around 1000m to the frontline, otherwise the tmod and tmog get used.

I think this already makes clear why there are "close distance to frontline object skins". I already gave a clarification in my prevouse post.

This "close distance to frontline object skins" get used to let the frontline look like a battle area. With a moving frontline thats not possible with normal tmods. A career use 7 or more different frontline positions, in single mission mode we can use 4 different frontlines.

Greetings,

Knegel

OK Ralf.

Lets see if I've got this right.

Tmod's in effect Allied models, except for the few Axis slots in the original exe list, but can be changed with the new system.

Tmog's are Axis models, like above.

Tmof's are Allied models on the front line.

Tmgf's are Axis models on the front line.

A couple of comments:

Can we use all 256 X Tmod's, Tmog's, Tmof's, and Tmgf's? This would be in effect 1024 models?

The front line seems to be a bit narrow. Front lines could be yards to several miles wide. I think the front line should be wider than at present.

hi John,

yes, you got it and yes, up to 1024 models.

The frontline is arond 2000m, 1000m axis and allies. In game it vary from maybe 1500 to 2500m.

I better start building some more then, PDQ!

Do we have an editor to make a ttd for 1024 models?

more importantly perhaps Col, how does the presence of 4 models per slot each with a separate skin affect your list of special tra links ?... at the moment you seem to only have tra file links for the main skin per slot...

cheers,


Pobs

But then we wouldn't be still asking for clarification, would we?




Can someone please give me a concrete example of how this would work, rather than an overview, a "for instance"?

Not the TMOD/TMOG part of the mod, as I said, I used that in SPAW.

Yes Pobs, it looks like I need to do a rethink in light of this bomb shell!

Now we really need to think what do we want.

Tmod's, will become UK only? or UK and French? Buildings, stationary vehicles, and bridges only?

Tmog's, will become German only? Buildings, stationary vehicles, and bridges only?

And the other two lists, gun emplacements, tanks, parked aircraft, and alike?

Lots to think about for sure.

Take a look to FAW, Per already use this system, there are plenty of examples.

I cant imagine how explain it more, best is you take a object(lets say the farm), now you take the tmod files(3dz´s + tpc´s) of two more total different objects(Hangar and Airfieldtower maybe) and the tower you call tmof + farm slot number and the hangar you call tmgf + farm slot number, then you place both into the EAW root.

If you now start the game you will see the Farm as farm outside the 1000m range, no matter what side of the frontline you be. Inside 1000m range(round about) you will see the hangar on the axis side of the front and the tower on the allied side of the front.

Its realy just the same as with tmod/tmog, but if a tmof or tmgf is present they are the models for the frontline area.

Greetings,

Knegel

btw, if Tony comes back and realy split his external Special texture list files, then every EAW World maker can create his own special texture list. In this way it will stay most short.

What ever happened to your Teutonic sense of order Ralf?

Already we have enough confusion over Tmods, and now your suggesting custom special texture links? Oh Boy, if that happened we could never make any models to work properly.

We have to have a default link system so everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet, just as we are with the aircraft.

Freedom is a fine thing, as long as it's controlled, or what's the point of having Police?

Hi John,

best is to look for a system to get rid of the special textures in general. They are realy just a mean hack, which disturb the whole loading procedure and cause the known problems.

best would be to add the name of the special texture file to the 3dz or related TPC, at least a 1 or 0 if a special texture is needed for this 3dz.

Wouldnt it be possible to add a trigger ( 1/0) and the special texture file name to the header of the related TPC??
The need of the lists is most horrible, this slow down the loading procedure, limit the maker and is a major reason for the skin slot binding, which shouldnt be needed at all.

Greetings,

Knegel

Once again you run into the problem of the max size of the 3dz header which sets the texture name size. There is nothing wrong with having links as long as they are logical.

Ok, Ralf, that's a little better explanation, thanks.

Please have some patience. You need to understand that as good as your English is, sometimes it's not good enough to express technicalities sufficiently for some folks.



Now on to the TMOD discussion.

As excellent as the TMOD/TMOG system is I'm not sure how much the frontline part of the mod adds to the game. That's why I'm asking for specific situations from some other modders.

For me it's a cost/benefit analysis. How much time to spend on a project versus how much it affects the game. "Bang for your Buck" as we say. ( Or "Bang for your Euro" but that's not such a good analogy any more )

As for checking out FAW, sure I could do that but isn't it a lot easier to simply ask here how the mod works rather than load an entire scenario and fly around hoping to find the changes?




And to the group, why in the world do these discussions always end in rancor?

Guys

There is a new test pack to download

http://www.users.on.net/pam_biddell/TM2TestPak.exe

Here's what I wrote in the "Info.txt" file

There are three extended CDFs
The additional files in DATA.CDF are "eaw32.tm", "eaw_ttd2.dat" and "Geawttd2.dat."

In TEXT_ENG.CDF there are the two texture mapping files "TextMap1.str" and "TextMap2.str" with Col G's latest additions, plus the "TILENAME.STR" file with the tilenames 0-255.

TERRAIN.CDF has three additional bumptiles.

There are two OAW "E" folders in the OAW128 folder.
"E 64TpT TM2" contains a TM2 eaw.exe which reads "eaw_ttd2.dat" instead of
"eaw_ttd.dat". This file has a maximum of 64 targets per tile.

"E 128TpT TM2" contains a TM2 eaw.exe which reads "Geawttd2.dat" instead of
"eaw_ttd.dat". This file has a maximum of 128 targets per tile.
Otherwise these two exes are identical.

Note that he default 1.28e used the "eaw_ttd.dat" in the DATA.CDF which has a maximum of 128 targets per tile, so the extended DATA.CDF caters for all three possibilities.

The TM2 system uses a "BumpVal.eaw" file and the default one is in the "EAWTM2" folder. If there is one on the root folder it will be used in preference. Otherwise it will use the one in the "EAWTM2" folder, so this folder and its file need to be present for the TM2 eaw.exes.

The only thing I have not mentioned is the "G-68TilesTM2" folder in the "OAW128" folder. This has the 68 tile version of ETO with Hawkinge on an island South of Dover. Some of the additional tiles were used to build this island.

Jel
Paris
France
6th Jan 2012

Oo La La!

Hi Guys.

I've created all 1024 links, or should I say 2048 if you include the distance models!

Please ignor my first list as I had to change everything around to cover 4 different lists of models.

First TMOD 256 Allied Ground Objects covered by links:
Tma000.tpc,Tra000.tpc To Tma255.tpc,Tra255.tpc
Distance Models
Tma000s.tpc,Tra000s.tpc To Tma255s.tpc,Tra255s.tpc

Second TMOG 256 Axis Ground Objects covered by links:
Tmg000.tpc,Trg000.tpc To Tmg255.tpc,Trg255.tpc
Distance Models
Tmg000s.tpc,Trg000s.tpc To Tmg255s.tpc,Trg255s.tpc

Third TMOF 256 Allied Front line Ground Objects covered by links:
Tmf000.tpc,Trf000.tpc To Tmf255.tpc,Trf255.tpc
Distance Models
Tmf000s.tpc,Trf000s.tpc To Tmf255s.tpc,Trf255s.tpc

Forth TMGF 256 Axis Front line Ground Objects covered by links:
Tgf000.tpc,Tga000.tpc To Tgf255.tpc,Tga255.tpc
Distance Models
Tgf000s.tpc,Tga000s.tpc To Tgf255s.tpc,Tga255s.tpc

I hope this system is logical enough, to be easily remembered.

Hi,

wrong is that this links are the only reason why the skins have their slot binding and name binding. The plane names inside the files are not hardcoded, appart from the special textures.
The plane names get defined in the planes.dat, that why we are able to load a FW190A skin and flt from the 109E slot. If we dont would have the hardcoded plane names inside the special texture file names, we could give every skin its own unique number(0000 to 9999 and/or aaaa to zzzz) and place it into its own folder inside the Planesfolder(like we do it already). Then we can use this skin from all available plane slots, no need to duplicate skins anymore.

Greetings,

Knegel

You just love change for change sake.

We have a system, like you say it's not perfect, but we need to get a grasp of what we have, without adding to the confusion that is rife, thanks to all these changes which are mostly undocumented.

If you want to mess around and add YOUR new system, then you can do it WITHOUT ME!

I've been here 10 years, and to be honest, I'm getting very fed up with EAW.

Its not a new system, its the system the original EAW makers had in mind. The Special textures got hacked into the code in a real bad way, damaging the flexibility of the whole game.
With a new system we wont change anything in your filestructure in general, of course it must be backward compatible.