For someone just trying to try WW2 submarine simulation: SH3, or SH4?

I have both, they`re excellent, SHIV has the better graffics, but takes a little more of a system to run it. SHIII being older, is still one of my favorites, theres tons of mods out there that make it a completely different game from the stock version. SHIV has some great mods of it`s own. For me it just comes down to if I`m in an Atlantic, or Pacific mood. Whichever you choose, I`m sure you will get alot of enjoyment from them. Puts

Thank you IP for the informations.
The graphics of SH3 appear to be already well above the average, so how about the enemy AI of SH3 with new GWX mods? I know that a lot of work and time went into those GWX Projects and I would like to give them a more serious try ...one day.

I couldn't stomach playing a Nazi sub commmander (SH3) sinking the good guys, so I picked SH4.

Something to think about.

The enemy AI is very good compared to stock, a lot of things are new, and GWX has an excellent PDF Manual that is a must read in itself, and explains all the new goodies, it`s also illustrated. There`s plenty of other good mods available that are compatible with GWX, if you don`t already have the SubSim site here`s the link, check it out. Puts

http://207.44.214.111/subsim.com/radioroom/index.php

They're both equally good. The difference is in the theatre of operations, and the side you're fighting for.

Thank you all for comments.

Just one last thing .. how you manage the time compression in that game. To me this is necessary to use it, but by the same token its immersion killer big time. So how to smartly use it to avoid the bore and at the same time avoid also situations of falling head on (and too fast) into the opposing forces?

I usually run at 128 TC over long distances, set my TC to 1 when ships and a/c are spotted. If you run above 128 TC you will not see ac. I use SHIII Commander, and use it`s functions to set TC, as well as other goodies it has to offer, such as variable crush depths. Puts

If you are stationed at Pearl Harbor and making the Pacific crossing from Midway to the Japanese mainland, I think you might want to use pretty high TC. If you use any sub other than the "S-boats" then you will have air radar as early as the beginning of the war . . . this means that even with time compression at or above x2048, you will slow to x1 in plenty of time to dive (or prepare to fight if you want). In the case of surface vessels detected by hydrophone (and later surface radar), you slow to x8.

As far as ruining immersion, if you use manual targetting then you might easily spend an hour or more nervously calculating the speed of your target and hoping your readings and TDC entries are accurate enough for when you release those fish. That's immersive!

I use up to 2048x TC. Anymore and my PC starts to lag terribly.

Currently my careers have been in boats stationed in Australia (Fremantle, Brisbane) and the patrol areas have been around the Celebes and Solomon Islands. Although this is not as far as sailing from Pearl to Japan, it's still a pretty long haul (about a week of sailing at 9 knots to get to the patrol zone), so TC is essential to speed up the time.

I find that TC doesn't really kill immersion. In fact, my opinion is that it helps make the game playable. I don't have the time to spend hours just getting to where I need to go, with half of that time in friendly waters off Australia. So TC helps me get to the action quicker.

Just my humble opinion.

Is the add-on for SH4 (U-boat missions) a must have from a mod point of view? I read that the Trigger Maru devs considered the mod for the standard version finished for example?

Well, UBM adds not just the U-Boat dimension but also some fixes & improvements for the game. But imo it's not strictly necessary, although I bought a copy & installed it, even though I don't intend to play the U-Boat aspect.

Also, all the mods are updated and based on version 1.5, the UBoat add-on version, so the pre-uboat 1.4 version isn't supported by the modders anymore.

The question boils to this: has SH3 moding advanced this sim to the new level? Has SH4 moding attained similarly higher level by now, if not even higher still, and if so - skip SH3, or dive into it?

I did not purchase SHIII, primarily due to the Starforce thing, along with it being a German U-Boat sim, but have had (and still am having) many grand hours with SHIV. The modders are making SHIV very good. But I cannot knock SHIII, because I have not played it, and by all of the viewpoints that I have read here and at Subsim, it has its advantages as well.

There are mods and things you can do to get rid of the "Starforce thing"... Personally, if you are looking to experience the best persian rug, you get it from persia... Uboats are the same. You want the best submarine, go germany...

The Germans were experts... Throughout the SHIII career, you will experience being the hunter and also the hunted. Its very invigorating having only a small window to blast a few merchant ships out of the water before a dozen destroyers come beaming on you...

And the german naval men were not Nazis... They were 18-30 year olds... The Wehrmacht Heer and their snobby officers had all the Nazis...SO yes, I would definitely recommend SHIII over SHIV, much more tactics are employed...

Cheers!!


TS

Well Put!

Yes.. I second that notion, Tigersharky.

I always wonder why some people feel the need to throw in politics when they talk about games, or simulations, for that matter.

Well, you should clarify exactly what you want. If you are only going to get one (i.e. you can't buy one now and the other later), and you are only interested in U-boats, and you have to have the best experience with U-boats right now, get SH3 and GWX mod.

However, if you would ever have any interest in U.S. sub operations, if you would want to play the GWX "next gen" mod (which will be based on SH4 1.5), or if you are willing to use very high quality but not yet officially finished mods (GWX for SH3 is now finished, i.e. no more development), then get SH4 and the U-boat Missions add-on.

Indeed those are the deep and philosophical issues which have variety of approaches as many as there is the number of participants of this discussion. All of us have the individual rights to feel about things the way we do and same right to talk about it. I think, no point to dwell on it.

However, there is a minute difference between politics and history. Politics, because of the charismatic and often shameless and dishonest tricks are more able to disguise themselves, history fortunately is not. On the long run you can always learn from history some of its great wisdom and (in most cases anyway) some invaluable truth. Unless you do not want to know or learn anything.

and that is a shame, well SH4 interest is put on the back burner then as I have no intention of getting the addon for a long time, I will eventually but it is to expensive here for what you get at the moment.

I'll still play with what I have, no biggie at all I just won't bother to much on worring about updates and stuff.

I prefer SH3 just because i've had more exposure to the theater (movies etc) but i play SH4 occasionally.

I think both are good, both have weakpoints too. SH3 control interface is much more intuitive in my opinion, while SH4 takes a while to get used to. Graphics in SH4 appear to be better but they also seem darker overall (maybe my monitor's fault?).

SH4 has a lot of really tiny niggedly things I don't like, like the size and position of the ship recognition manual. I could go on and on, but still there both good games but both have points that will take getting used to.

I can`t compare as I don`t have SH4 (with the Pacific not ebeing my piece of cake), but I own SH3 since it came out.

With GWX it`s a great sub-sim, on par with the old king "Aces of the deep" IMO.

It still has some quirks, especially with the sensors, but what the GWX team squeezed out of SH3 is bloody brilliant. Haven`t tested GWX 2.2 though as I`m currently mid-patrol.

Greets

K.

Interesting because SH4 looks brighter (then SH3) on my screen. I'll probably have to adjust settings.

AoD one of the true great computer games!! If there was ever a hall of honour ....