For those of you like Eugene and Recluse, that have both EECH-modded up compare to LB2?
An apples for apples comparison for single and multiplayer would be appreciated.

Like is it a must have for a LB2 fan to also have EECH?
If so, why?

IT is a hard question to answer. LB2 always felt better to me, but the newer EECH flight models have come a long way. Now you can, of course fly many different choppers in EECH (including the RED ones if you so desire).

SINGLE PLAYER gameplay is a bit different in EECH. There is a much more STRATEGIC Focus rather than the Mission Focus in LB2. TO win a skirmish or campaign, you must wisely choose your missions toward the overall campaign/Skirmish goal.

For example.. if you need to capture an airbase, you have to first do a lot of SEAD and CAS to rid the area of enemy units. Then you need to destroy the airbase sufficiently to effect a capture. You may have to capture enemy FARPS on the way as jumping off points and degradation of enemy air. This usually follows the sequence of:

RECON
STRIKE
BDA
INSERTION

And each flight has to be generated (though you can short circuit the process by destroying the target during a RECON (transmit recon data AFTER strike) and accomplishing the first 3 all by yourself.. but I digress..

I haven't had a chance to really try out the new avionics, but they have totally revamped the TADS system and FLIR imagery...as you no doubt have read about.

Despite a dynamic campaign, the missions kind of seem the same time after time. I guess they did in LB2 as well, but somehow it always seemed more interesting. That said, the improvements in EECH have made it both graphically and by the addition of new Terrains and avionics, a whole new sim that deserves a place on any rotorhead's Hard Drive.

MULTIPLAYER:

Both sims have their issues with MP. MP has always plagued EECH with unknown disconnects, failures to join and server crashes...but it seems like a lot of that has gotten cleaned up and I always had good success. One advantage over LB2 is the ability to have a server up and have people leave and join at will (like F4). In MP you can join any flight, either Wingie to another human, or another flight, or on the opposing side. No Pilot/CP-G modes..

The MASTER SERVER browser built in lets you see and join anyone's MP flight..with no need to input IP addresses..but you can turn this off if you want a private flight and connect direct IP.

Recluse

Thanks Recluse.

How do the PFZs and data sharing compare?

I had EECH and Apache/Havoc long long ago. I doubt I have the CDs anymore.
My impression of EECH was that it had a nice online campaign engine, but that the fm, avionics,
weapons, and cockpits were cartoonish and not indepth realism like in LB2. So I flew it a few
weeks and forgot about it. Sounds like much has been done since. Oh yes, I remember you can also
put your own face on the pilot's. Never got into doing that though, might win the war just by
scaring the adversaries off.

I think I may pass until DCS comes out with its Apache, which is supposed to have two player cpit.
Being a Flanker/Lomac fan, Im sure it will be very good but prolly missing a dynamic campaign eng.
SSI/EagleDyn have always focused on graphics and feel of flight more than virtual war immersion.
Hopefully they will transcend their legacy.

You can transfer PFZs to both AI and human wingmen. The AI wingmen will attack the targets inside the PFZ, humans may do whatever they want



The avionics should be at least on par with LB2 by now. At least I can't think of anything avionics which LB2 simulates which EECH doesn't. The weapons have been heavily re-modelled as well. Guns and rockets have realistic drop, drag and dispersion. Missiles have specific flight paths (like an arcing high path for Hellfires, and a spiral flight path for Vikhr missiles).

If the cockpit looks cartoonish I guess is up to everyone to decide for themselves, but this is what it looks like now, so you decide:

All things being equal (and they seldom are), EECH with the Apache mod appears to have become very much like what many LB2 fans were hoping would happen with LB2 had the source code been released.

AV8R, sorry I didn't see this sooner. Recluse has addressed a great deal of the specifics. Arneh has done heroic work in upgrading EECH to a high standard. Others have also contributed significantly, without doubt. EECH offers such a rich environment of theaters, terrains, and campaigns that it would be a shame not to explore it for yourself, dedicated rotor head that you are! The EECH crowd shows no signs of letting up on improvements. A look at the choices in the .ini file should tell you a lot about the functioning and flexibility of the choppers and of the simulation as a whole.

LB2 still offers some advantages to me that are likely more based on personal preference and familiarity. I get a more solid sense of the platform in LB2 than in EECH. Whether it's inertia or some other esoteric modeling, I'm still getting a better "feel" for the choppers in LB2. Arneh and others have leveled the differences with the once clearly superior cockpit in LB2 so that is not as much an issue now. The campaign missions progression in EECH displays the sort of sameness that Recluse described very well. No matter the theater, the game remains the same. That said, I believe the theater assets in EECH are more extensive than in LB2 and model a broader field of combat. There's a lot going on all across the map in EECH. Sometimes I've felt as if the game was on automatic to a large degree. LB2 may be a smaller slice of the action, but it is easier for me to grasp exactly who is doing what, where and when - and what you might do about it. May well be due to my relative lack of experience in EECH campaigns compared to LB2.

Recluse and I have had good fortune with both sims in MP. Although you know this isn't always the case in LB2, he and I have had more or less equal success in both sims. You and your retired pal might get some real mileage out of EECH, especially during the long months or years before DCS Apache arrives, assuming it will.

Bottom line - these two sims are utterly different in look, feel, structure, and environment. If you can pick up EECH, I'd recommend it.

I am seriously considering ditching LB2. Blame Arne, its his fault
I tried his Apache yesterday, and with TIR (5DOF) and those nice MFDs LB2 has less to show for.
I think the last major feature LB2 has over EECH is 2-playable (pilot+cp/g) aircrafts.
Now I just need to find that soundmod that replace the EECH cp/g with the ones from LB2

Sure Arneh's work is admirable and skillful. In fact he has moved EECH out of the cartoon era,
which must have been a herculean effort. Too bad this kind of effort couldnt have been applied to
LB2 and give it a facelift, assuming it could be done.

Until theres a way to fly 2 players in same ownship, LB2 stays King for me.
Reason being, thats how I use it most of the time. I have too many other sims
where I can tool around in singleplayer or fly in my two seater ship alone in multiplayer.
LB2, IL2, MSFSX are those one can share a cockput with.

As I said before, short of EECH getting a multiplayer cockpit; Ill pass until DCS fulfills its
stated goal to have one. LB2 is a classic and continues to be unique right out of the box.

Dont get me wrong Arneh, youre a super human modder in any man's book. S!

Here is a link to a 20MB movie I made of the newest, modded EECH that gives you a good feel for the graphics and gameplay. It really has made unbelievable strides..

http://www.simhq.com/_downloads/air/EECH/eechmovie.zip

LB2 is still awesome though!

Nice movie Beach...

I noticed they didnt hose the soviet chopper pilot with AAA after he ejected.
About all EECH does for me, is wish like heck for DCS when they do an APACHE, if they do it.

We need a guy like you to make a good LB2 movie.
We need a guy like Arney to mod LB2 and update the cockpit and ship model.