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#2439223 - 02/03/08 04:30 AM 2nd most realistic air combat sim?  
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Powerwise Offline
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Assuming the Falcon series is first (which it appears to be), what would your opinion be for 2nd? Keep in mind this thread is only considering jet sims. Could it be Jane's F-15?

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#2439372 - 02/03/08 10:22 AM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Powerwise]  
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Falconeer Offline
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I think i would be Jane's FA-18


(Edit: Jet Sims Only)

Last edited by The Falconeer; 02/03/08 01:02 PM.

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#2439374 - 02/03/08 10:40 AM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Falconeer]  
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Kosmo. Offline
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He already said only jet sims... So Jane's F/A-18 would most probably be the second.

#2439388 - 02/03/08 11:24 AM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Kosmo.]  
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Mace71 Offline
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Depends how you define 'realistic'. How many buttons you have to press to start the jet up or how realistic the experience is?


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#2439407 - 02/03/08 12:20 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Mace71]  
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Torquatus Offline
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Definately Jane's FA-18.

But failing that, Lock On: Flaming Cliffs is pretty good for a survey sim (puts on flame-proof pants and starts running)

Just my opinion!

Torq'


"I like to find out that I died, and that I'm currently in a ballet in China, and all the other very accurate and important things that the Wikipedia site brings us all."

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#2439459 - 02/03/08 02:27 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Torquatus]  
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The Nephilim Offline
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Definetely Janes F/A-18 ;\)


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#2439512 - 02/03/08 03:30 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: The Nephilim]  
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ClayPigeon Offline
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Tie Fighter?

Who needs air anyway.


-I am ClayPigeon
"Send in the choppers"-
#2439672 - 02/03/08 07:02 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: ClayPigeon]  
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Inkompetent Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ClayPigeon
Tie Fighter?

Who needs air anyway.

Question is, do ion engines qualify as jet engines, so that TIE fighters qualify as jet fighters (which the poll was about)?

#2439705 - 02/03/08 07:42 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Inkompetent]  
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ClayPigeon Offline
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A critic on the warpath. In spite of what his name would suggest, Inkompetent is right: an ion engine, by virtue of being based on the electric propulsion of ions, does not qualify as a jet engine.

I stand corrected and can only conclude that I am not funny. Dang it all. I loved Tie Fighter man!!!


Not do derail a potentially very interesting thread, would X-plane be considered a worthy candidate? Personally I never tried it but reading about how its flight models work gives me goosebumps. Or does it have to be a combat jet sim :)?

If not then put me down for Jane's F/A-18.


-I am ClayPigeon
"Send in the choppers"-
#2439882 - 02/04/08 01:00 AM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: ClayPigeon]  
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Janes F-18 was the sim of all time. Imagine if it had got Falcon treatment

#2440027 - 02/04/08 04:16 AM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Toonsis]  
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.Wombat. Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Toonsis
Janes F-18 was the sim of all time. Imagine if it had got Falcon treatment

Yep still leads back to the original with what you said. It amazes me that this old warhorse is still running with AF, OF and RV , all based on the original....friggin amazing.

Last edited by .Wombat.; 02/04/08 04:16 AM.
#2440322 - 02/04/08 03:33 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: .Wombat.]  
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Although Jane's F/A-18 seems to be more fun and lasting due to many game features, Powerwise' question about realism and Janes' F-15 is worth considering, . Its avionics and modeling in the cockpit are pretty significant. Just didn't seem to have the fun factor that Falcon and F-18 (and LONGBOW!!! Not to mention Tie Fighter :D) have.

Have to believe that co-op campaign and missions, especially with two seater capability, would have elevated F-15. But agree in general re Falcon Numero Uno followed by Jane's F-18.


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#2440412 - 02/04/08 05:22 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Powerwise]  
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Chappy. Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Powerwise
Assuming the Falcon series is first (which it appears to be), what would your opinion be for 2nd? Keep in mind this thread is only considering jet sims. Could it be Jane's F-15?


Definitely Jane's F/A-18, no doubt about it ;\)

#2440462 - 02/04/08 06:26 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Chappy.]  
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What is "realistic" is going to be as symantically and qualitatively ambiguous as what is "truth" to people.

Ive owned all the "serious" combatsims from: FighterDuel, FleetDefender, Falcon's IBM genesis,
Flanker's v1.0, EF2000, BackToBagdad, EAW, Janes-F15/F18, JF-WW2F, Janes-USNF/USMF/IAF, Janes-LB2, HIND, NovaLogic-Apache/Comanche series, TK's series of sims, through todays military flight sims...

My "personal opinion" based upon flying so many of them, and feedback from pilots I know:
1. IL2 series: most realistically modelled aircraft (WW2 vets have told me how good it is. Yes there are some real stinkers and what-ifs in there too with so many a/c in the series)
2. Falcon series: best modern war environment simulator (F15/F16 IP instructor told me its "good enough" and has kept his interest thru FalconAF)
3. Flanker/LockOn series: best military jet fighter flight simulator (conclusion I made based upon comparing Falcon and Flanker series. Each has its strong and weak points, both are greats)
4. Janes LB2: best military helo sim (I dont have DCS or BlackShark)

I call these the "Classics"

Of course, milage will vary from virtual pilot to pilot.
Flak jacket mode enabled.


AV8R
#2440524 - 02/04/08 08:23 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: AV8R]  
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With all of the software companies trying to come out with new ideas for games, they don't seem to be considering what could be a real money maker.
Get the rights to some of these older, really popular sims, and do nothing but give them a face lift. State of the art graphics.
I'd run out and grab a copy of F/18, right now, if it had a new, updated graphics engine. Or Falcon 4.0, even if it looked as good as, let's say, LOMAC.
Imagine Janes' Longbow Apache run through the CoD4 engine. Still the best helo sim...imo. Black Shark isnt out yet. (Is It?).
And yeah...gotta go with the herd on this one, Falcon 4.0, and Janes F18. A close third for me would be Janes F15. My first jet sim and I played it to death! Felt realistic enough to me at the time.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#2440668 - 02/04/08 11:18 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Pooch]  
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NH2112 Offline
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If we're assuming that F4:AF is the most realistic air combat sim, I'm voting for DI's Tornado as 2nd most realistic.


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#2440723 - 02/05/08 12:25 AM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: NH2112]  
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AV8R Offline
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YOu guys must be talking about Janes F18 with all the facelifts and patching.
When I used to fly F18 it was before it got its second life. I wasnt so impressed
with JF-18 back then compared to Falcon and Flanker. Did it improve over the years?

What has happened that significantly makes it beyond its first incarnation?


AV8R
#2440762 - 02/05/08 01:16 AM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: AV8R]  
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Polak Offline
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The most significant improvements in JF/A-18 were obviously done by dedicated TSH group of modders. There were many mods to mention, but the most significant IMHO was terrain changer so you could fly in desert theather of F15. But other mods were way cool too.

I need to mention that most underrated and virtually unexploited was JF/A-18 Mission Editor. Just such a thing that you could include and attach any sound clip to the plane, place or situation was never ever found in any of the ME of other simulations. But obviously that little treat was just the begining of all list of interesting and possibly gameplay afecting features in ME.



Last edited by Polak; 02/05/08 01:23 AM.
#2441110 - 02/05/08 02:05 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Toonsis]  
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Bard Offline
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Janes F-18


What WW2 Fighter pilots say about Angels and Airspeed:

"Nice job of getting down to the basics - love your choice of a cover!" Col. Clarence 'Bud' Anderson

"I have enjoyed reading angels and airspeed, it should prove good reading for all interested in combat tactics and their application related to the fluid air environment and state of technology in WWII years. All the best as you make it available." - Col. Charles McGee - Tuskegee Airman

NEVER ENGAGE STUPID.
#2441163 - 02/05/08 03:56 PM Re: 2nd most realistic air combat sim? [Re: Bard]  
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Definitly Jane's F/A-18.
And if you compare the unmodded version of Falcon 4 with JF-18, I would put the later (JF-18) in #1 in terms of realism.
Of course the modded versions of Falcon 4 (such as FreeFalcon, etc...) trend to be more realistic in overall aspects but nevertheless Jane's F/A-18 is still more realistic in certain aspects such as:
- Modeling of GPS guided weapons (the only sim that models such weapons realistically).
- IFF interrogator (there's one in FreeFalcon and RV, but I think that the JF-18 one is better modeled).
- All Radar modes in general, specially in modes such as GMT or SEA.
- Not to mention carrier operations...

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