Hello there, this may or may not be a problem that someone can help me with, I've tried everything I can to get it working, but have failed

I'm having trouble enabling force feedback on my Microsoft FFB2 joystick in the current setup I have.

The way my system is put together is a classic example of whatever is lying about modified or shoved into the right place to get it working. Basically, I have a three 'input devices' attached to the PC:

1: the MS FFB2 Joystick (USB)

2: a Thrustmaster steering wheel, with pedals (USB)

3: a modified (and very old) thrustmaster pro flightsick (gameport)

They all work, in that within the Game Controllers bit in the Control Panel in windows, they all show up, and are calibratable. They all work in game, as I expect them to, apart from the MS FFB stick.

The pedals on the wheel are setup as the rudder, the thrustmaster works as a throttle and general button device (thanks to my construction/destruction 'skills' I've melted/superglued the joystick into a throttle configuration), and the MS FFB 2 works as the main stick.

The problem seems to lie with the way Windows (XP Pro) handles the joysticks ID's. I can get force feedback working fine if I only plug in the MS FFB 2, no problem. But when the others are connected, the MS FFB 2 is relegated to joystick ID 2 within IL-2.

I've tried to plug them in in order (MS FFB 2 first or last) to get the ID's running in line that way, but windows seems intent on assinging each device to the same ID each time.

What I want to be able to do is either get IL-2 to give the joystick with ID #2 to handle the force feedback, OR to get windows to give the joysticks the ID's as I want, so I can set the MS FFB 2 to be the 'first in the list' so to speak.

To put it simply, I don't know of a way to do this, and I've looked everywhere I can think of. I can't find any such options in the device manager, game controller page, IL-2 setup, or in the conf.ini file. The only thing I can see that *might* have an effect was the "FF" option under the Joystick heading of the conf.ini file, which I tried to set to 0,1,2,3 but none of these settings worked.

Does anyone have a multi joystick setup with one FFB joystick that works? if so, could I have a look at their conf.ini file, or does anyone have any idea how I would change the device ID's to fit so that IL-2 will recognise the MS FFB 2 as the first joystick?

I hope this hasn't been too much of an essay for such a (relatively) simple request, I just thought I'd provide as much info as I could so the problem might be dealt with. I know what it's like when someone asks a question but doesn't provide enough info to fix the issue...

Anyhow, thanks in advance...

e: oh, and I apologise if this subject has been dealt with in the past, I couldn't find any threads for it.

By clicking "Advanced" in Game Controllers and choosing the Sidewinder as "Preferred Device" it should get id #1.

I don't know why M$ changed this from win2000, where you were able to set the exact order of the controllers as needed.

If for some reason Korn's suggestion doesn't work, you might try this. With all your devices installed, run a quick IL2 mission (for only a minute or so) and then exit the game.

Next, make a copy of your conf.ini file as a backup. Edit the config.ini file in the IL2 folder under the [rts_joystick] section. Make sure the command line FF=1 appears in the section that controls your force feedback stick. If it's showing as your second device, then it will be the second set of numbers. In the example of my config.ini file below, my joystick is the third (last) device.

Example of my config.ini

[rts_joystick]
X=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 68 72 80 82 0
Y=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z=0 9 17 24 33 41 51 58 68 74 78 0

1X1=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Y1=0 10 14 20 27 34 41 46 53 58 72 0
1RX1=0 0 0 19 30 41 52 60 65 69 73 0
1RY1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RZ1=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1U1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V1=24 0 1 3 7 9 14 18 23 27 33 50
1Z=0 9 17 24 33 41 51 58 68 74 78 0
1RZ=24 0 0 29 40 50 60 70 74 80 85 50
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z1=10 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0

1X2=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Y2=0 10 20 30 38 48 57 63 70 75 78 0
1RX2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RZ2=10 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1U2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 30
1V2=24 0 0 29 40 50 60 70 74 80 85 50
FF=1
1Z2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

Hope this helps.

hehe, excellent, thanks guys! I think both of these solutions will work...

I have a curry with naan bread and poppadums spread out in front of my PC so I can't test much right now

I don't know how I didn't notice your fix Korn, I just thought that advanced option was purely for getting things to work with older programs, I didn't realise that it was for actually changing the device ID.

And Dizz, I didn't realise that the sections of the joystick info in the conf.ini file related to each joystick on the PC.

I'll try them out in an hour or less, and report back!

Cheers!!

Hmm. Neither fix seems to work...

Changing the sidewinder to the prefered device under Game Controllers does change the device ID in windows, because the 'About' button in the Properties pages of the MS FFB 2 joystick changed from #2 to #1, but if I map controls within IL-2, it still comes up as device 2.

on the other hand, conf.ini's joystick section reads as follows:

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0

1X=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Y=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1RZ=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

1X1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RZ1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1U1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1X2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

I've tried putting FF=1 in various places here, all with the same result.

In my conf.ini file, these lines are all bunched up, I've seperated the joysticks and tried FF=1 before/after each section, and I've tried putting it randomly between some of the lines too, with no results

I'm stumped, as far as I could see both fixes should've worked fine.

I can confirm that conf.ini file is being updated because I tried to remove FF=1 to see what happened and it was replaced when I restarted. I also tried to restart windows after the device ID was changed in the Game Controllers Advanced box to see if that made any difference. It didn't.

Have you tried the JoyIds utility.
I haven't tried it myself but it may be what you are looking for.

""Description:
Users that have multiple gaming devices attached to their computers will ultimately face the problem of having to deal with "joystick IDs". A number of games are written in a way that they will only read input from a joystick with a certain ID. The control panel (as well as Profiler) provides a way of switching IDs, but the control panel's way is cumbersome, and using Profiler to switch IDs may be somewhat annoying as well. Both methods have the shortcoming of only being able to move a controller to ID1, without managing other IDs.

To this end, Paul has created a nice utility which allows both switching of IDs, as well as presetting several configurations (say, one for racing games, one for platformers, and another one for flight sims) that can be loaded by just double-clicking a configuration file. Paul's JoyIDs utility can be a real timesaver for those that use multiple controllers!"""



here is a link. joyids utility

hehe, that looked like a perfect solution again!

when I tried it it confirmed that windows has indeed changed the FFB2 to ID#1 by using the Advanced option in the game controllers control panel. Unfortunately it looks like IL2 seems to bypass the windows ID and set it's own.

No matter what I seem to do in windows, the device IDs are always the pedals/wheel first, the FFB2 second, and the thrustmaster stick last. Which oddly enough is the order of the devices in the game controllers box, regardless of what ID windows has assigned each one.

I've also now tried to reinstall IL2 in the vain hope that it would redetect the devices and assign them the IDs windows has already set them up with. No joy. (BADOOM TISH)

e: I've also tried a utility I believe Oleg Maddox created specifically for IL2 which shows all the info for the joysticks connected and the mappings concerned, but it doesn't seem to deal with device IDs or forcefeedback, only things like translation curves and deadzones.

e#2: some of these utils on that page are very useful in their own right for finding information on joysticks and their axes, thanks mate!

well, I found a post on the Ubisoft forums that reports one guy has had luck with almost exactly the same problem by changing FF=1 to FF1=1, and that the fix sets the controller on ID#2 within IL2 to be the one that gets force feedback. Alas, it's not to be on my setup, it just plain didn't work

I wonder why the mf stick is showing up as ID 2 ?? I thought that windows set the ids in alphabetical order?

Would there be a way to rename the MF stick somehow,,, maybe rename the exe ?

I'm really curious about this problem and just throwing around some ideas.

Try plugging in the devices one at a time and testing each in game?
Put the joystick on USB0 slot on mobo?
Removed all other FFB devices from the system? Especially Logicrap stuff >:(
Check BIOS for wonky gameport settings?

Had a nice long post but IE lost it

Yeah, I've tried plugging them in one by one, that's how I know the FFB does work, if the MS FFB is the only one plugged in it's fine.

The USB slots don't seem to make a difference, neither does the order in which I plug them in.

I don't have any Logitech gear, just the thrustmaster wheel, thrustmaster gameport stick and the MS FFB2. There aren't any gameport settings in the BIOS, though I did have a problem with gameports in the past. I have tried two different cheap sound cards (£4.99 jobbies from ebay) and been unable to use the gameport on either, due to too few free resources apparently. But recently I was given a sb live value card which seems to work fine, but I really do think this is unrelated, the MS FFB 2 works fine on it's own, it's just that IL2 refuses to see the MS FFB as anything other than ID#2, regardless of what it's assigned in windows.

I'm at work at the moment, so I can't do anything to try and get it working, will do when I get home. The idea of changing the filename on the driver *might* work, assuming that windows can still recognise it as the driver it needs for the MS FFB, we shall see.

I just asked a friend of mine that works in the same IT helpdesk as me. He had possibly the most useless advice ever... It ranged from "get a better flight sim" to "unplug the other stick/pedals and just use the FFB stick". Kinda defeats the point of setting the whole thing up as a sim IMO :P

Just a thought,, again.

I wonder if you could try the FF1 thing in the config ini again ,, only this time set the config ini file to read only (after the change). Maybe the FF1 change would stay put ???

Is that Thrustmaster wheel FFB ?

I tried to switch it to read only, but no luck.

It looks as if IL2 doesn't read FF1=1 as a valid command, if I switch FF on within IL2, it'll place FF=1 in the conf.ini file, rather than change FF1=1, like it doesn't recognise FF1=1.

I've just tried it with only the MS FFB2 and the gameport joystick connected, it works perfectly. It's just that I like the setup with the pedals connected, it just adds to the immersion, y'know?

I've tried setting joyUse=1 to 2 and 3, just in case that sets the default joystick that FFB is allocated to. No luck again.

*sigh* I wish it'd all just work :,(

oh, and yes, the wheel is FFB, it does seem it's taking over from the MS FFB somehow.

I had the same problem with a Logitech ffb stick that I had converted to a throttle quadrant for IL-2.
It wouldn't allow ffb in my Ms sidewinder,, same problem as yours.

What I finally did was change the Logitech board to another Logitech circuit board (From a cheap used Wingman stick)that was not FFB.The circuit board in the non ffb Logitech sticks are virtually the same as the ffb sticks ( except for the extra wires to the motors).

Seems a bit overboard though,, to fix a problem like this,,, that you would think would just be something simple !

So you tried deleting FF-1 on the wheel config. then put FF-1 under your Msstick config,, then switched to read only,,, and it still didn't work???

right, could this be an end to my worries?!

I tried uninstalling the driver software for the thrustmaster wheel on the off chance that it was a conflict between the MS FFB2 and the wheel, and it looks like it was. The wheel seemed to be stealing the 'focus' of the force feedback from the MS FFB2...

now this leaves me with a bit of a catch 22. You see the pedals only work as a combined pedal on a single axis if the drivers are there to set them up as such. If I want force feedback, it looks like I have to do without the pedals working like I want them.

HOWEVER... if I have the drivers for the wheel installed, set up the pedals, then uninstall the drivers then run the game, it all works! I have the pedals as a combined axis, AND force feedback through the stick!

The only thing is (and I can't quite test this tonight as I have a friend of mine avidly flying about right now and I can't bring myself to tear him away from the screen!), whether or not restarting windows will reset the pedal's combined axis setting, therefore forcing me to reinstall the wheel's drivers, setting the pedals to a combined axis, and uninstalling the wheel's drivers, all each time I want to play IL-2!!!

ANYHOW. On a slightly different tack this time, is there any software that can map two separate axes to a single axis? i.e. to map the pedals to a single axis outside of the official drivers for the wheel.

Anyways, I have it working, for now. I'll report any findings, in case someone out there has as convoluted a setup as I seem to have. :P

e: I didn't see your last post until I popped this one in there, sorry spitfire! Yes, I tried putting FF=1 in all the different places, but I don't see how putting FF=1 in different places in the conf.ini file would actually make a difference. I mean, from a programming point of view, FF=1 is simply setting a variable, unless there's some kind of header that in effect says "everything after this line is for joystick ID#1" then it won't matter where you put FF=1, it will just mean that force feedback is on, and won't apply to any particular joystick ID, if you get my meaning.

There you go, I told you so - the wheel is the problem :yes: it seems like MS stuff is fussy about having other FFB devices from other manufacturers on the system ...

From the Game Devices menu, you should be able to select and install a generic USB joystick driver without FFB to solve the problems.

In fact, what I'd try is to uninstall the TM software AND drivers then make sure the registry is clean (that might take a bit of work :() then plug the wheel in and let XP give you some generic driver ... that might work and should hold between boots.

Actually, there's an idea - have a sniff around the registry - there may be a key to enable/disable the FFB on the wheel ... or have you tried disabling the FFB in the TM software?

It seems to work ok now between reboots, windows is using it's own drivers for the wheel.

I haven't poked about in the regisrty yet, that's a thought, but there's no way to turn off the FFB directly in the TM software. I'll have another look when I get back home tonight, like I said, the only issue now is that if I want to play another game with the pedals as separate axes then I'll probably have to reinstall the software, probably the same to enable FF on the wheel.

I'm not *that* bothered about that really, I'll be playing more IL2 than rFactor anyway. The idea that there's a registry key for switching off FF on the TM wheel is intriguing though... It'd be well handy to be able to have a software switch that could disable the FF so I could still have the functionality of the pedals without having to reinstall the drivers completely each time.

Yah ... then you could have a .reg file to do quick changes of reg. Odd, cos I used to use my MS FFB2 and MS FFB Wheel as rudder and had zero problems :O

Possibly two MS devices were ok, just a conflict between different manufacturers?

I'll see what I can do in the registry when I get home, it would be really nice just to have a simple on/off switch for the FFB to get this to work.