World War II is certainly one of the most visited settings in PC games, especially amongst online multiplayers. PT Boats: Knights of the Sea, however, will transport us to a completely new environment - that of the sea battles involving the small and versatile craft known as torpedo boats. Akella is well known for their many sea-based simulators and action games and thus the perfect choice when it comes to bringing these battles alive on the players' monitors. The game offers a single-player campaign or an online experience entertaining up to 16 players in LAN and Internet multiplayer.

http://www.hookedgamers.com/articles/preview/430/pt_boats_knights_of_the_sea

That's actually a pretty good looking game. Have you seen the trailers on gametrailers? I like the DX9/DX10 comparison and is one of the major reasons for my upgrade this year.

Actually I have, but I only have a DX9 card currently. I was hoping to have my system upgraded by the time it came out, but it looks as if I will not be able to before the game finally gets released sometime this month. I wanted to have that upgrade prior to my review, but unfortunately it will be from a DX9 point of view.

This month? I didn't realize it was so close to release. Well, that is going to cut me out as well. My new system won't be avail till March at the earliest.

Well that was the last I heard back in early December 2007. But I went to a game monitor, you probably know it as GameFAQ today, and they still have it listed as "TBA".

Oh BTW, I ran across your name on a forums today during one of my websurfing missions. EIDOS Moderator? Was that you? Or was that memorex?

That's me.



Funny is that I am a mod at the Pacific Storm forums as well.

I see that EB Games doesn't even have a list ATM and IGN is a tad off.

Thanks for the Link! Im looking forward to this game since the first screenshots on the old PT-Boats website.
There are actualy 3 games which makes me thinking of upgrading my system for a DX10 card: Crysis, FSX and PT-Boats...

I remember seeing Knights at the E3 2004 but I could kick myself for not checking it out. I was too excited checking out SH3.

Well I have an opinion, and only an opinion I must say because I did not personally purhase the game, but I have played it via Dx9 from a friend of mine here in my town, and that game is Crysis. However I have three other on-line gaming bros that have Dx10 systems and have completed the game, along with "some" multi-player. Well since the November's release, 2 have removed it from their systems, and the other has left it on, but he has a 1TB HardDrive as well, "but just wants to have it available IF he one day wants to play it again out of boredom". (His exact words, BTW!) They say, IF you are "solely" into awesome visual effects, which can only be brought to you by Dx10, then Crysis is your game. However IF you are into a story driven & atmospheric game that draws you deep into the action, something like Half-Life or HL2, then the game falls flat in those regards. And I can say the visuals in Dx9 are good, and I concur on the 2 levels that I played out, but it was just not that immersive to my taste. They also ALL stated that the multi-player was good, and there are players, but the game-modes were nothing different than playing Battlefield 2142, with way lot better graphics.

Sorry if I was a little OFF topic, but I just wanted to pass that on to you about Crysis. Read the reviews, get other opinions, and read the "user" opinions OVER the so-called "professional" ones. Those from the leading publications, on-line and in print, have me personally thinking about their motivation behind a good score, when they are receiving advertising money from that games publisher. Sort of "makes you think a little these days".

I have Crysis and I have to agree. I found most of teh game fun although my system (6800GT AMD 3500+) was choking in certain areas. When the game consisted of going after the North Koreans I thought it was pretty good but once you threw in aliens I have to say... I miss the Trigen. I never thought I would say it but teh Trigen are much better than this cookie cuter story. To be honest I am looking forward more to the mods than the actual game.

On Topic: Did anyone else notice when the ship was sinking the people jumping overbord into the water? I remeber the SH3/4 team saying they did not do it because of performence and taste but I will say that it makes the game look much more alive and dynamic.

I bought Crysis just for the graphic and physic effects and the Sandbox editor, not for the story. For me it was the most technical advanced game late 2007. It runs very well on my current system. I want to play it with a DX10 card thought, because I want to see all the beauty of the game.
I never played the MP part of this game...


Yeah, thats a cute feature. I like it!

There is a preview from 18th of January here: http://news.filefront.com/gaming-today-impressions-of-pt-boats-knights-of-the-sea-preview/
They speaking of a press demo! Why SimHQ did not have a press demo?

One thing is the game developers don't send us these demos to 'preview'. If they wanted us to accomplish a 'preview', they would send us one. However, most developers have their favorites to send these demos free of charge to anyway, mostly the main streem publications like Gamespot, IGN, PC Gamer, 1up, places like these that specialize and have a broader viewer base.

Understood. Could`t SimHQ asking Akella (International PR manager: Valeria Avacheva V_Avacheva(at)akella(dot)com ) for a press demo thought?

Yeah we will try that out. Thanks.

Any news? Do you got a press demo? Thanks. :-)

Bump

Bump Back! But no, only Main Stream Websites like Gamespot, Gamespy, IGN, etc. get "Press Demo's". We have to wait for the game to actually come out on the market for review.

That is pathetically stupid as far as a decision model goes on their part. It is sites like SimHQ, Wargamer and other sites that push these games into people's minds.

IL2 became a hit in no small part to the press and the attention it got in the flight simulation circles. If Blue Byte, and later on Ubisoft, had left IL2 to the PC Gamers out there it wouldn't have sold squat. It would have been moderately successful but wouldn't have garnered the interest it did.

They are cutting their own throats with that attitude. The people who will really be interested in a game like PT Boats frequent sites like SimHQ, Subsim, Wargamer, and CombatAce. They don't frequent Gamespot, IGN, or Gamespy. Those sites would throw any copy written about the game under the bus for some kind of exclusive for a SIMS2 add on pack.

Fine, let them. That is their preogative but I don't want to hear them complain when they can't find people to purchase their game.

Thanks for the info NC.
This game is for the main stream market, I think. So they don`t want SimHQ to review it.

OH I will be accomplishing a review of it, you just will not see it on the day that the game comes out, like you will see from those mainstream websites. Mine will probably be published about 2 weeks after or more.

Never a truer word spoken, this site and the others Tom mentions are the haunts for us guys that parley up the cash and talk other people into buying because of x factor or x mod that has been done.

1. The PR & Publishing dept are inept, as they are oblivious to what clout these sites carry
or
2. It has been turned so far into a action game that the mainstream ADD kiddies are the target now.

Yes I agree also, what an ill considered decision, contrast this with Ubisoft whos developers are constantly on the Subsim forums even late after working hours and at weekends, who beta test with community members and make sure Subsim gets review copies first.

Akella seems to be a very unfocussed company, it shows in there development of all their recent games SeaDogs II half way through development became "Disney's'Pirates of the Caribean". Captain Blood originally based on the Rafael Sabitini novels has now evolved into some weird action game with monsters and hack and slash action. Swashbucklers became Swashbucklers "blue & grey" totally refocussed and changed to it's detriment again halfway through development. Even PT Boats started as a sim and has now "evolved into an action/strategy tactical game".

The real shame about Akella is that they are only inches away from greatness but their poor execution and wandering project goals and timescales may end up sinking their ship all together, which would be a tragedy. I hope that PT-Boats comes out ok as it originally had so much promise.

Very Well put the sonarman! I tip my hat!

Thanks Tom,

It's just so frustrating,I think the main problem is the middle management interfering in the development process, the marketers and the bean counters. The devteam and the customers are committed and have clear ideas about the direction of games, but it all gets messed up when timescales are unrealistically tightened and the marketers can't shoehorn a sim into the strategy, action or (worst of all) the dreaded "casual" box.

In many ways this is also where SH4 became a bit messed up, unrealistic project timescales almost sunk the sales of the game as bad mouthing of the game spread due to unfinished features. Luckily for us thanks to the dedication of the devteam and the commitment of the community the game was salvaged and is now going from strength to strength.

It just shows a patent problem with a lot of game developers. If you want to develop a historically based simulation and you WANT IT TO SELL, you go to the people that will buy your product.

The reason SHIV succeeded is because the game was designed for the dedicated simulation fan and it was marketed to that person. If they had just stuck with Gamespot or the other online and print based mags they would never get the exposure the game needed to garner the interest the game would get in simulation circles.

This is where Akella is cutting their throat IMHO. If they decided to give interviews and previews with places like SimHQ and Subsim they would get a lot more than just a 150 word preview of their game. They would get articles describing the Baltic fighting in WW2, something most Westerners have no experience with. In addition you get a much more in depth preview of the upcoming features and special things that will go on with the game.

Instead what they get is a lot of exposure with people who really don't give a snap about that kind of game. Sure, 2 million people may see the little print showing that some xxxx online gaming mag did a preview of the game but less than 10% will even consider clicking on the title knowing there is some World of Warcraft interview going on and of that 10% maybe another 10% would read farther past the Soviet vs German portion of the preview.

Sorry, downright stupid. Instead of creating some hype in the simulation world what they have done is create some fear in the true target audience of such a title. Now people will wait to see what the title is really like instead of gaining optomistic entheusiasm for the title. I might have gone out and pre-ordered if I knew what real simulation people thought of the game so far. I probably would be more interested because I know that places like Subsim, SimHQ and CombatAce would give a good, detailed preview of what is coming in the game.

Instead, all I get are cliff notes covering not much from mainstream sites. That means I have to wait until the real title comes out so that I can make a decision to buy the game or not. And this is from someone who played the title at E3 in 2004 and was very interested in the game. Now I just don't know.

I hope Akella is reading this, or finds out about it because they really need to understand what their target demographic really is and should start trying to generate some kind of interest in that demographic.

Otherwise their game will be in the 9.99 bargain bin within 3 months.

Yes, I think you are absolutely right, there has been quite a discussion on the latest screenshots over at Subsim as each new set seems to be adding more and more like arcade style visuals to the game first the highly colorful HUD appeared, then colorful rigns round selected ships now giant crosshairs etc. This prompted me to make the following post over at the Akella PT-Boats official forum hopefully Akella will take some notice of it, they haven't even been seen on their own forums for months! Please add any comments you may have over there as well.


Here are some suggestions for Akella based on feedback I have received on various community sites in relation to screenshot images and interviews with the game designers.

1. Use your community, please listen to us and talk to us both here and at major community sites such as Subsim.com Marinesims.de and Sim HQ.com people are very hungry for news. Make sure these sites get review copies they are the lifeblood of your game.

2. Make the yellow health bars and selection rings around ships optional, I have already seen many people complaining about this in forum posts a lot of sim & strategy players do not like anything that detracts from the visual realism.

3. I realise the interface is designed to appeal to the casual gaming market and is more colourful etc than normal I wouldn't suggest changing it but make it moddable so that the community can develop/change it.

4. Leave the game as open as possible for modding, the many community mods for Silent Hunter 4 I am sure have helped sales dramatically increase for that game and build a huge user base for the potential sequels.

5. Make sure the simulation part is not arcadey, allow users to use the 3D controls to control the ship if they wish.

6. If it's not in the release game be sure to add a multiplayer mode where multiple players can man different stations on the boat, this would be a first for a WW2 naval sim, and even if the more static features of some of the missions put people off this feature alone may make them buy the game.

7. Use any DVD-ROM protection system you want but not Starforce it has become a pariah in the sim community and it's inclusion would probably cost you a massive lot of sales.

I want nothing more that for this game to give Akella the success it so richly deserves, too many of their recent games have fallen just short of the mark, inches away from fulfilling their full potential. This I hope marks only the first in a series of WWII naval sims from Akella."

Thank you very much sonarman for your posts! Does a official from the PT Boats forum ever answered your questions? The most of your threads are unanswered. You and Tom are fully right about PT Boats. This game will be for sure a arcadish one, I`m afraid. I didn`t lost my interest on it, but I correct my expectations downwards on this one...

The other thing they don't realize is that Silent Hunter IV could easily be modded to include several US PT Boats. If Ubisoft was smart about it they should be considering this option now. The maps are in place, the enemy and US equipment is available and SHIII modders have shown that it is very possible (see the S-boat mod for SHIII) to create a PT boat add on for Silent Hunter.

I think the major reason this hasn't come about is that interest in PT Boats has kept interest in making such a mod. If PT Boats comes out and is a big stinker, look for an Elco Boat mod within 6 months.

I agree that SH4 would be good, but probably the Battlestations:Midway, or the upcoming followup BS: Pacific, would be the best game to model PT Boats into. Since both are primarily a surface vessel simulation, PT Boats would also be spactacular within that gaming graphics engine.

Hi EagleEye

Thanks for your comments,One of the developers Baldson used to come on the Akella boards quite often but sadly we haven't seem him for over a year. I think/hope the problem may be they don't have a lot of English speaking guys on the team.

I really hope that the arcade nature of the game is only down to the visuals that our talented modders could fix, it would be a real tragedy if this game ,which has been in development now for over four years went "down the tubes" (if you'll pardon the pun). Lets's hope it's not been dumbed down too much as it was meant to have some fairly innovative features.

The Schnellboot mod in SH3 is awesome and works very well the modders have done a fantastic job on that one and it has inspired two other projects for SH4, a playable destroyer & pocket battleship.



Yes, it will be interesting to see what hapens in Battlestations: Pacific, hopefully a bit more realism is going to be present this time round plus we will have troops to deal with. I think however reading between the lines we may see a surface game next from Ubi based on the fact that they added a "Convoy/Escort Commander mode" option in multiplayer whilst the new U-Boat missions disc brings us strategic control of surface units in the singleplayer campaign. As TomCofield so rightly points out,they already have a ton of surface ship models from SH3 & SH4 the systems could be tweaked for surface warfare, the world & ports are already there, it's a pretty complete jigsaw with only a few pieces to put it all together. And I think the devs are "big picture" kind of guys who are desperate to take the game to the next level.

I have conducted a couple of polls over at Subsim & on the official SH4 forums recently with a list of options for the next game and in both polls surface sims came out tops. I think most would prefer a remake of a game more along the lines of the old classic Microprose title "Task Force 1942" which had a larger scope than the more recent Destroyer Command and allowed control of battleships and cruisers in addition to the trusty tincans.

The genius of TF1942 was it's seamless interface which let you be torpedo officer on a destroyer one minute and admiral of the fleet the next. I think has yet to be equalled in a surface game (Distant Guns could learn a lot from the old classic).

One problem for the developers would be building bridges for all those ships, most games to date (TF1942,Destroyer Command, Great Naval battles etc) got around this by only having one generic bridge would that be acceptable today? I think a good compromise would be generic bridge floor layouts for each type of ship ie. destroyer, cruiser, battleship, carrier etc but also supply a "bridge builder" to the community with drag and drop functional telegraphs, binnacles, telemotors etc. This would allow the community to eaily create custom bridges for each ship.

Whilst I myself enjoy submarine simulation I too am desperate for a new surface ship sim, it's been a long time since Destroyer Command and that game was sadly half-baked. Battlestations Midway helps to fill the gap but it's a little too arcadey, another game which suffered a long development history and totally changed tack from Mythis original pure simulation goal.

Another promising light on the horizon is of course offered by Resurgent Games in the shape of the sequel to "Enigma Rising Tide" "Enigma Sink the Hood" it will be interesting to see what that game brings to the table,

I would easily pay full price for a PT Boat simulation based on the SHIV engine. To take your PT boat out in late 1941 to attack the invasion fleet coming toward Luzon would be worth the price of admission. Night attack on the transports, command of five or six PT boats.

Recreate JFK's night in the South Pacific? The PT boat attack on the IJN fleet before the main battle of Suriago Strait. Oh, my goodness I would easily pay full price for a game that simulates those kinds of actions.

But I won't pay for an arcadish 'Star Wars Pod Racer' type of game on the water.

I'm starting to get flash backs of the time when people started realising what a complete mess whirlwind over vietnam was.

Just looking at some of the text in the screenshots makes me feel nervous; "Transports sinked: 3", "Time: 18:03", "We have destroyerd all enemy transports! Mission completed". Not only is the English riddled with errors (it's something I can live with), it's a tell-tale sign that this exciting piece of software has been converted from a uniquely promising sim into an un-appealing shoot-em-up.


Cheers

I know what you mean there AD! I saw that as well and am wondering if that is only a sample, you can imagine what the whole game will be like.

Yes, this the text is a bit worrying along with the colourful interface and the health bars etc. As far as corrections to the text go I assume most of that will be cleared up at the publishing stage as it it with most games developed in non-English languages.

Make your concerns known to Akella
Make your feelings & concerns about the game known over at the official Akella forums for the game . Not sure if Akella still visits the forum but they are focus testing and polishing the game as we speak, so now is the time to point out any concerns and that is the most likely place they'll look for constructive opinions.

I have to be blunt and ask 'what's the point'?

Three things are fairly clear;

A) Akella aren't responding on their forum, and perhaps aren't even listening.

B) They are at the testing stages, the time for design and concept changes has long since past.

C) They've shunned the sim community and are interested in selling this piece of software to gamers.

I was hoping for was a sim with the depth and feel of Silent hunter, but with the high-speed action that controlling a PT boat would bring. I'm quite sure PT boats Knights of the sea will provide the latter, I'm starting to doubt that it will provide the former.

Cheers

A agree with you 100% on that one

B & C I'm not so sure, as I posted recently they are looking for testers at the moment, not for fuunctional testing but for opinions on the look and feel of the game, the interface and they are selecting at all levels from true naval simmers right down to general gamers. They seem to be taking their time to ensure that the game suits all groups (not always a good thing).

The main problem I think is that it is difficult to simulate surface ships in the same way as a submarine as unlike them, surface ships very seldom operated alone they were almost always part of a division or fleet. Thus a surface game to be accurate in it's approach must in essence be a strategy/sim hybrid. The best example of which to date being the ancient "Task Force 1942" from Microprose.

The difficulty for the game developer is deciding how much the player can handle at both levels and developing a convincing AI to compensate for the player when he moves to another station/level of command. Even in a subsim this is difficult, in a fleet action game it becomes extremely difficult.

I think that developers are in a way over-developing their interfaces allowing course plotting in 3d, compare the simple and direct course plotting of "TF1942" with the confusing system in the latest fleet sim "Distant Guns" and beyond being "more confusing" it is actually less realistic than the 2d chart approach. Plus it gives us all these ugly yellow lines etc, Fighting steel is another example although thankfully you could plot in 2d there as well.

I understand that PT boats operated as part of a division/fleet, but I personally believe that level of control should be abstracted away from the player and routed to the mission scripting engine.

I don't think that controlling a group of PT boats needs to be any more complicated than controlling a flight of 2, 4 or 8 aircraft. Cloning the way it's done in Flight sims, i.e A TAB based set of radio commands, would work well. Being able to order your group to fire/hold fire, follow/stay-put, formate, rejoin, break off etc would be enough.

Trying to turn Knights of the sea from a PT Boat sim into an RTS is a huge mistake; if I want to play an RTS I'll find a much better experience elsewhere in the plethora of RTS available.

Course plotting should definitely be done in 2D on a period map using period equipment. 3D plotting is completely unnecessary.

Cheers

Hi AD,

Yes, I think you are right, like you I also prefer to feel like I am actually on the ship doing everything there as it would be in reality, not the "seagull's eye in the sky" 3D strategy mode of many games such as Distant Guns, Fighting Steel, Fleet Command etc. I think that the jump to strategy mode takes you out of the realism of the situation, its a case of "If it aint broke don't fix it".


The fleet games that I feel did things right in this aspect are probably Task Force 1942, Destroyer Command and to a lesser extent the GNB series and the sadly much underrated "Enigma Rising Tide". they had no "onscreen (yellow stuff) pollution" and much more of a "you are there feeling"

I like your idea for the radio commands perhaps issued with the keys like in SWAT or perhaps through a radio room interface.

Boat sim, RTS, Fleet command. I hope for our sakes they can pull it all off. Is there a release date yet?

For PT-Boats they are saying Q3-Q4 I believe. At the moment they are focus testing the interface with players of all levels which usually is done towards the end of development so hopefully it is on track for their projected date

Yeah, but development company's Q4 is like in Jan-April 2009!

and yet I saw PT-Boats at E3 back in 2004!!!

Yep, let's hope they haven't kept it "in the oven" too long!

Yeah, I wish I had stepped up and played it but Nexus was just around the corner and SHIII was upstairs. I hope it doesn't end up like Auquventure for teh Amiga. Too long and what came out was mediocre.

What is funny is that the impression of the game from what I have read and see in pictures is different than the impression of the game for the DX9/DX10 comparison video. I know it is just a comparison video but still it gives you some sense of the game.