I've been thinking of getting a used joystick for the purpose of hacking and making a control box but was curious if anyone had any suggestions on what joystick I should use.

I have an X-52 HOTAS and Rudder pedals (All Saitek), will I need a specific controller to work alongside these devices and not screw things up? I was thinking of getting something like an X-36/X45 or any stick that will work that has a lot of buttons. If I were to get an X36/45 would I be able to use programming software?

I've been wanting to build a custom control setup for a while but money issues have kept me from the more expensive USB controller modules. I'm looking to build something with trim wheels and all the extra buttons I can get for engine start, gear & etc............

Thanks
Chris

Chris,

If you want extra buttons, and you want really amazing ability to program them, then you might want to think about a touchscreen. I got one, and I love it (like you I also have an X-52 and Saitek pedals - but it doesn't matter what you have).

Go here, check this out.

http://www.touch-buddy.com/forums/index.php

Software is free, and the hardware should run you about $200 or so. I got mine for about $150 plus $20 shipping.

Ripcord

EDIT: Actually this FAQ thread is really a lot better.

http://www.touch-buddy.com/forums/faq/18-master-faq.html

You can try the software without having a touchscreen, by the way, just using a second screen (or connecting a laptop) and using your mouse to click on it. That way you can try some of the cool profiles that have already been created. But you will want a touchscreen before you are done.

Thats something for the future, I thinking a little cheaper here. But you are right, I've read some stuff about TouchBuddys applications in flight simming. I think I looked at one guy who used his for gauges but could change it to button commands by pressing arrows at the bottom of the screen.

I'd like to do that but if had that cash I'd buy a USB Keyboard enocoder. Eventually I want to build a simpit that has working pushbuttons and trim wheels for about everything imaginable. For now due to saving for a home and paying back taxes along with other bills I think a used HOTAS joystick will be cheaper and easier. Thanks for the suggestions!

Chris

the best(easiest) joystick to hack is the Saitek AV8R. It has plenty of buttons and trim wheels and they are easy to connect to because they all have two wires leading to them - not printed circuit boards like the X-52 or X-45.

its fully programmable, but I don't know if it would interfere with your X-52. I think if you just assigned commands through the sim and not use the Saitek programming it would work fine.

Well, for programability these are pretty "hackable" , plenty of buttons, plenty of axis. Altho, may be out of the price range.

The AV8R sounds good if the electronics really are that simple inside. Really any joystick will work, though. Lots of people hack up various Logitech products. Don't hack up a CH controller - you don't need to spend that much money for this sort of project.

Any joystick that is programmable before you hack it up will retain that programmability once you have taken it to pieces and re-wired it. The only important part of that equation is the PCB that gives you the USB connection to your computer.

You do not need any special controller to work alongside your existing X-52.

Don't hack up a CH controller? OOPS!

Yeah I guess an X36/45 would work then. I really dont need it to work with SST software, just an added bonus. But if I were to hack one of the above controllers I'm wondering if I can program the axis as trim wheels in the HOTAS section of the IL2 controls. All the other buttons would be fine just assigned through the IL2 control scheme but for trim I know you dont get that accurate control unless programmed in the HOTAS section.

Thanks for all the help everyone, and as always more suggestions are always welcome!

Chris

My next project is going to be one of Leo's USB Controllers to convert a gameport TQS/F-16/Rudder to USB.


http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/joystick/

Yes, you should be able to. The hacked-up axes should just appear as any other axis to IL-2.

X45:
http://www.geocities.com/jeroen_huijben/X45_schematic.gif
P8k:
http://www.geocities.com/jeroen_huijben/P8k_schematic.gif
Cougar's TQS:
http://www.geocities.com/jeroen_huijben/CougarThrottleEdit.gif

Thanks a bunch for the links Jeroen, no doubt those will come in handy. As soon as I get my monthly payroll I'll be making the X-45 purchase with the deals on ebay at $15-20 plus $15 shipping.

I'm really hoping to ditch the old keyboard in simming after this project.

I used an old MS Extreme Force feedback stick to convert into control box.

It gives me prop pitch, and trim controls via dials on the front. You could use all the buttons from the stick but you need a big front panel for that as that stick had a lot of buttons.
Does not have any problem and works fine with my full CH setup and IL2.

Well while waiting for a decent auction on ebay for an X45 I decided maybe I should practice my skills first before destroying a used joystick. I picked up an old Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital from my brother and went to work taking it apart yesterday. I was able to pull it all apart to the point where I only had the board, wires and pots.

The pots are very cheap plastic but there are four axis (throttle, pitch, roll, rudder) and have three wires each. All the fire buttons are hardwired to the board and the 8 pos. hat switch is only 4 buttons, when two buttons are pressed it activates one of the diagnal Hat positions.

I dont have a camera handy to take pics but I plan on taking some pics or finding some on the web.I hope to desolder the buttons so I can attach center off toggles (I think those are the kind that are spring loaded, press and returns to original pos.). I'm also hoping to replace the pots with something a little more durable. The hat switch is my biggest concern, as I'm not sure if I'll be able to exploit the 8 button potential but 4 buttons isnt that bad either.

If any of you have any experience in hacking a Logitech wingman I'd greatly appreciate the help. Hopefully I'll get some pics of the board up to help. I think the buttons are going to be the biggest issue here.

Actually, they are called momentary contact toggles. A momentary pushbutton switch is like a keyboard key. (it bounces back up) A momentary toggle switch is spring loaded to return to center. Alot of times you will see them labeled like this, too: OFF- (MOM).

With replacement pots, know the originals's resistance (10K, 50K, 100K, etc.) and be sure to check the specs or the data sheet, of the replacement. Pot durabilities can vary anywhere from 5,000 to 100,000 cycles. Industrial position sensors (fancy pots ) are rated for a million cycles. Hall effect sensors (no wipers to create wear ) are rated for about 2 million cycles. Of course the last two are a bit pricey!

Digikey is a great place to look. They have data sheets for most items. Although, they do have a minimum purchase requirement.
Mouser is a good choice for small orders.

Thanks for the advice Grizzly. I bought the project box yesterday and now I just need to take some pics of the board and buttons/pots. I did come across an example of my joystick being hacked for a project but it didn't go into detail about how the joystick was hacked. The guy had attached wires to spots on the board where the buttons were and added new buttons/switches by bypassing the old altogether and leaving the old in place.

I'll try and find a link to that one....

I rewire, for friend, a old CH PRO Throttle gameport, using the USB circuit of a nameless stick:

His USB circuit provide 4 axis, one HAT (8 angle/corner) and 12 buttons.

The CH PRO Throttle gameport originaly have 20 buttons, distribute in four 4 way HATS plus more 4
push buttons.

CH PRO Throttle whit new USB circuit:


To allow all original 20 buttons and HATs of CH PRO Throttle to continue working, I used the corners of HAT (of USB stick) as 4 buttons, using diodes to avoid that two buttons pressed at the same time in diagonal generated commands. This provide me the necessary 20 buttons.

Diodes in one HAT, wiring in original Stick 8 way HAT. This allow to use HAT corners as four buttons:


Tip - avoid solder in USB circuit, or use grounded iron. They are sensitive to ESD.

Others gameport sticks awaiting rewire is:
One Suncom Hawk, one CH F16 Combatstik, one CH Force FX (maybee whit Logitec FF circuit) and one
TM TopGun. I like this stics due to his design based on real ones.

Sokol1

LOL great to see others into this stuff. This is my first controller hack project and hopefully not my last! I did get around to taking some detailed pics of the board today though and here they are:

Everything altogether minus usb plug


Cheap Pot (4 in total but all the same)


Top of joystick (4 buttons & 8 way hat switch)


Base of stick (two buttons throttle/pitch/roll pots connect here)


Top Backside (just for kicks)


Base Backside


I need to figure out how to utilize the 8 way hat switch & 4 top buttons/trigger as 13 independent buttons (momentary push once release). Then I need to figure out what to replace the pots with plus how to wire the new ones in there place.

In all I have or would like to ed up with:

13 Buttons
4 Pots

Thats if I'm guessin right by the looks of the stick.

I think the pots will be the easiest part by the looks of things. The hardest part I think is the 8 way hat switch. The hat is physically 4 buttons but when the hat was pointed say northwest or diagonally it contacted the top/left buttons at the same time. I have'nt got a clue where to start but I have a soldering gun all the tools and I'm ready to learn! Any help on what to do, how to do it and what to get is greatly appreciated. I've seen the work you guys do and its top notch, better to learn from the pros like you!

Thanks
Chris
AKA Hitch

HitchHikingFlatlander

To wire 4 momentary toggle switch (SPDT)to you HAT board:



To wire 8 momentary toggle switch (SPDT) to you HAT board:



Use 8 toggle switchs instead thes doubles show above, if desire.

IMO - The original push button in HAT board are normaly open (NO) switch, is more easy leave this in board that try de-weld (remove).

Sokol1

Thanks Sokol1 thats a huge help. Now if I were to mount 8 switches like this:



http://www.radioshack.com/product/index....rentPage=family

Actually I'd like to use a momentary switch like the toggles in your pics, ones that spring back to the original position. To be perfectly honest I like to use either switch for every button on the board. Would you be so kind to give me some tips on how to wire those in?

I'm also curious if the switches I should be looking for (momentary that is) should be normally open or closed?

Once agains thanks a bunch for helping out, I really don't have a clue where to start!

Best,
Chris