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#2226733 - 06/03/07 05:38 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: El Mudjahed]  
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It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, or how smart you are, If it doesn't agree with experiment it is WRONG. ~Richard Feynman
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#2226743 - 06/03/07 05:55 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: 159th_Viper]  
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Well RV has surprised me in a really positive way
- one click install, no need for the dreaded dance
- 3D clickable cockpit with working instrument panel; finnaly no need to switch with 2D pit anymore
- 6DOF
- graphics from 21st century

Finally you can use TiR the way it's supposed to be used in F4. The flight model will maybe never be on pair with LOMAC, but what it gives in return is more than enough to make it worth checking out - DC, avionics, fuzzy logic (no more all seing /all knowing AI) ...

And I wouldn't call searching for RV on P2P programs ''hunting down''. All you need is will to do it, no luck needed.


Otherwise, I guess LOMAC will become livelier again when BS comes out - I'm hoping for new chopper squadrons, that will be dedicated to coop flying.

#2226921 - 06/03/07 10:46 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: Colt40Five]  
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El Mudjahed Offline
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Thank you for the cool page \:D but i tell you i doubt this f-5s are capable of fighting agains Algeria's Su-30's or Lybia's Mirage 2000 or Mig-29 lol and if that is not already hard enough we have only 11 of them looool \:D

Last edited by El Mudjahed; 06/03/07 11:52 PM.
#2226929 - 06/03/07 11:01 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: El Mudjahed]  
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The 25/25-T advanced flight model in Flaming Cliffs is a beautiful thing to fly. Absolutely stunning. Worth the price of the product all by itself IMHO.

Out

#2226996 - 06/04/07 12:29 AM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: El Mudjahed]  
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Colt40Five Offline
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Originally Posted By: El Mudjahed
Thank you for the cool page \:D but i tell you i doubt this f-5s are capable of fighting agains Algeria's Su-30's or Lybia's Mirage 2000 or Mig-29 lol and if that is not already hard enough we have only 11 of them looool \:D


At least you know some of your countrymen get to experience the joy of flight in a military jet!


It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, or how smart you are, If it doesn't agree with experiment it is WRONG. ~Richard Feynman
#2227003 - 06/04/07 12:43 AM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: Colt40Five]  
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Thank you Colt! I've been looking for that website with all the OOBs and for the life of me couldn't remember the name of it. And yes, Red Viper is fantastic.

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#2227034 - 06/04/07 01:54 AM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: PoleCat]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Originally Posted By: 169th__PoleCat
The 25/25-T advanced flight model in Flaming Cliffs is a beautiful thing to fly. Absolutely stunning. Worth the price of the product all by itself IMHO.

Out


I feel the same way. I fly Lock On quite often but I've logged many, many more hours in the SU-25T than any other plane in the game.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#2227073 - 06/04/07 03:04 AM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Tom_Weiss Offline
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: 169th__PoleCat
The 25/25-T advanced flight model in Flaming Cliffs is a beautiful thing to fly. Absolutely stunning. Worth the price of the product all by itself IMHO.

Out


I feel the same way. I fly Lock On quite often but I've logged many, many more hours in the SU-25T than any other plane in the game.


and it does not hurt to be so good looking

#2227453 - 06/04/07 04:36 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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cdelucia Offline
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Um, what's Red Viper? Add-on for Falcon 4, right? Is it free? Did I hear you say clickable 3D cockpit with working gauges???

Can someone point me to the developer's website?

#2227499 - 06/04/07 05:33 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: cdelucia]  
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Yes, add-on for F4, also apparently works with F4:AF. Questionable legality when used with AF, from my limited understanding. I suggest you post on one of the F4 forums and get some better info.

#2228200 - 06/05/07 04:21 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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Originally Posted By: Thomas DW
As far as realism and fun is concerned Lock On is the best - Falcon4 is not bad, but it is dated and you can feel it.


Could not agree more.

Out

#2228218 - 06/05/07 04:41 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: jsph27]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Thomas, when you say that you can "feel" how dated Falcon AF is, are you referring to the sensation of flight that you experience? I agree that Lock On recreates a better sensation of flying but whenever I'm using the air to air or air to ground radar in Falcon and I have to figure out which modes to use and such, I hardly feel like I'm playing a dated game.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#2228238 - 06/05/07 05:17 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: Colt40Five]  
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Originally Posted By: Colt40Five
Falcon's avionics and dynamic campaign blow anything away for their depth. What keeps me flying lockon over F4 are the flight models. F4 just doesn't 'feel' like flying to me. LO does. and that, of course, is subjective...


I used to feel the same way about Falcon. However the more I play it, the more I appreciate its flight model. I'll agree with you that the sensation of flight isn't as good as Lockon, but IMO the effects of flight in terms of BFM are modeled better. I've seen footage of pilots in centrifuges and footage of pilots pulling high Gs in the F-16. The way the flight model presents rolling your plane over in a crisp roll and pulling hard Gs at conering speed just seems more authentic to me. That surreal "sterile" feeling you see since the atmosphere in the cockpit is stable and all is relatively quiet but there's about 1600 lbs of force pushing back on the guy as he turns and starts to strain. This, of course, is all subjective however.

To me, its a shame that ED put that AFM in a CAS aircraft. I don't care how popular it is in the CIS, it would have been a much better presentation if they would have modeled it for the MiG 29.

It will be VERY interesting to see how the AFM is in the Viper in EDs next fighter plane game. I think a lot of the "on the rails" complaints come from parts of the F4's flight model that are actually accurate. F-16s really do roll that well, as I'm sure everyone knows, due to the fly-by-wire. It will be funny if people say they get similar "rails" sensations from ED's game! \:D


"By the way, even though I know its based on accurate data, it still pisses me off too when I'm about to gun someone and my screen starts to go black. I guess its only natural." - Pete Bonanni
#2228245 - 06/05/07 05:27 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Thomas, when you say that you can "feel" how dated Falcon AF is, are you referring to the sensation of flight that you experience? I agree that Lock On recreates a better sensation of flying but whenever I'm using the air to air or air to ground radar in Falcon and I have to figure out which modes to use and such, I hardly feel like I'm playing a dated game.


the sensation of flight is low - I feel like it has no mass, but don't get me wrong, F4-AF is still very good, I wish I had the time to master it.

#2228255 - 06/05/07 05:47 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: RedTiger]  
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Originally Posted By: RedTiger

To me, its a shame that ED put that AFM in a CAS aircraft. I don't care how popular it is in the CIS, it would have been a much better presentation if they would have modeled it for the MiG 29.



I would have liked an AFM for ALL of the flyable jets in Lock On but I can be greedy like that. ;-)


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#2228308 - 06/05/07 06:39 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Fly F4 Red Viper or Open Falcon versions. The sensation of flight is much better than before (although not as good as LOMAC)

As for avionics, no contest. F4 all the way.

As for fun Campaign, F4 all the way again. I just really don't like flying the same missions over and over when you know exactly what units are where.


"No power in the 'verse can stop me!!!"
#2228365 - 06/05/07 07:58 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: RedTiger]  
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I wanted to clarify my previous post because, to me, it sounds like I'm saying the way G forces on the pilot is modeled is better. Thats not really what I mean.

When I first started seriously learning BFM, the platform I used was F4AF. If I had to present BFM to a total newbie, I'd use F4AF. I think the flight model does a better job of conveying all the things that act on a fighter jet during BFM. IMO all the things like drag, acceleration, G-forces, etc. are presented in a much more 'sterile' environment than LoMAC. It was much easier for me to see the effects of energy on maneuvering in F4AF's FM than LoMAC. When I fly the Viper in that sim, sometimes it feels like I'm moving around an E-M chart Boyd would have created rather than a hunk of metal flying through the air.

So I agree that the sensation of flight is lacking in things like wind buffeting the air frame, for example. However I think the "sterile" FM in F4AF makes learning BFM easier. I also think that this has the side effect of making it feel more authentic to what my EYES (rather than my body since I've never flown a Viper before) tell me fighter pilots encounter during BFM, if that makes any sense.

EDIT: Hey lookey there, I'm a full member now! \:D

Last edited by RedTiger; 06/05/07 07:59 PM.

"By the way, even though I know its based on accurate data, it still pisses me off too when I'm about to gun someone and my screen starts to go black. I guess its only natural." - Pete Bonanni
#2229167 - 06/06/07 07:51 PM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: RedTiger]  
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Interesting reading regarding Eagle BFM in LO.

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=119817


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#2231672 - 06/10/07 01:20 AM Re: People Still Play This??? [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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Originally Posted By: Thomas DW
As far as realism and fun is concerned Lock On is the best - Falcon4 is not bad, but it is dated and you can feel it.


Agreed. The most important thing to me is the sensation of flight. Overall realism suffers without this. Systems simulators don't interest me as much, and that's how I primarily regard F4. I have F4 and F4:AF and Lock-On Flaming Cliffs. The sensation of altitude and flight in LOMAC is unmatched by any flight sim with the possible exception of FSX.

I wish I were interested in dynamic campaigns and the like but I'm not, and I don't have the time. I only have time for a couple of missions per week, so LOMAC is my preference.


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