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#2097043 - 01/23/06 10:09 PM Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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Wondering if anyone who has played both can give me a comparison of OFF and Red Baron 3D with Full Canvas Jacket patch. Seriously considered the FCJ patch back when it was still a preview, then just kind of forgot it until now. Any opinions on which is best? I've been really impressed by OFF, but still could use my Red Baron fix if the FCJ is worth it.

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#2097044 - 01/24/06 02:11 AM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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Ivan Putski Offline
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There`s no way to make a comparison till OFF is finished, it`s only in Phase 1 at present. IMHO the graffics, planes, terrain, etc. is far ahead of the old Red Baron 3d sim. FCJ is a great addon for RB3d, and adds much to improve the standard sim. Still the advent of more recent gains in the techno field have left RB3d in the dust.

I still have RB3d on an old rig, P-III, 512mb memory, and a Voodoo3, 3000 card, but as I mentioned before it`s dated in comparison to what Over Flanders Fields has offered so far. Puts


"Is he?....Yeah....Nothings moving but,his watch"

Ivan
"Half Bader"
Putski
#2097045 - 01/24/06 03:05 AM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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BadBud Offline
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I can give you a comparison: I find that even with just Phase 1, so far that OFF is better then RB3D/FCJ if not for anything more then just for the graphics. The scenery is far better and does not start going bad as FCJ does after ten minutes minutes of play. I am able to program my HOTAS buttons with OFF and not with FCJ. The effects are great in OFF, just so-so in FCJ. The prospect of OFF getting even better with additional Phases is a big plus. The flight characteristics are about even thought somewhat different. The RB3D/FCJ planes are more prone to going out of control and crashing than OFF: which is more real is ????. I prefer the OFF FM. There are some things that I do not like about OFF, but once I am in the cockpit and flying, all is forgiven. This is only my opinion. There may be sim combat pilots that are much smarter than I out there that will differ with my assessment. I will not be re-installing RB3D/FCJ on my new PC because of my preference to OFF.
Good luck in your choices, BadBud

#2097046 - 01/24/06 03:45 AM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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Well I have OFF and like I said I'm really impressed, but I really just hate CFS 3 and it's entire engine. The game will stutter like crazy, none of the fixes listed here on the message board helped, and I'm running an Athlon 64 3500 with 1gb RAM and a 256mb ATI Radeon 800XL, so my system shouldn't be inadequate at all. I guess I just miss the RB days of almost no load time between missions, and quickly getting right into the action \:\( OFF did have me in a state of awe though... It looks great, and I always thought CFS3 was one of the ugliest looking games I owned \:D

#2097047 - 01/24/06 09:16 AM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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WidowmakerUK Offline
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I'm with MLC82 regarding CFS3. When I first bought it, fair enough, my system probably wasnt up to it, but as usual...the sim community come together to bail out another naff Microsoft product.

CFS2 was the same...became a half decent sim, due to 3rd party addons...very basic in the beginning (and the Cartoon cutscenes were an insult to our intelligence)

FS2004 is probably the only good sim (out of the box) that M$ have produced (IMHO I MAY ADD!)
(But sadly...NO guns!!)

RB3D was fantastic....It kept many WW1 addicts going, during the dark age of Jet Fighter sims (yuk)
But like a Grand Old Racehorse, she is rapidly approaching retirement on my puter....To be replaced by a 'Cheeky little number' that has burst on the scene, and is re-writing the genre!

By the time we recieve Phase's 2&3...the fat cats at the Software houses, will no doubt be trying to cash in on the WW1 flightsim market...and guess what?...They can go and get F*******d for me!!


"When I shoot down an Englishman, My hunting instinct is satisfied for 20 minutes"... {Baron Manfred Von Richthofen)
#2097048 - 01/24/06 03:17 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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I can't figure it out, both MSFS2004 and Forgotten Battles run smooth as can be with full details cranked, and I can set everything on CFS3 to the bare minimum and it doesn't improve at all.

Also I should add, as many of my posts on here make me look fanatical toward the original Red Baron (Not 2 or 3d, #1), that was THE game that got me into both real flight sims (over Pilotwings on SNES) and really into military history also, both when I was 12 years old \:D I used to play that game day in and day out and never, ever get bored with it (boot it up, load campaign, load next mission, take off, instant time compress to action, kill/survive, instant time compress back to base, land). Not even RB3D equaled that one, although it did come close.

#2097049 - 01/24/06 03:33 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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WidowmakerUK Offline
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I find myself agreeing yet again!...The original Red Baron was the reason I upgraded my Amiga to a PC!...It was mint!


"When I shoot down an Englishman, My hunting instinct is satisfied for 20 minutes"... {Baron Manfred Von Richthofen)
#2097050 - 01/24/06 03:46 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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That one is my #1 game of all time, nothing else has ever come close (even with modern graphics) to making me feel like I was there. That campaign system was unbelievable. I always think of it when playing any of today's sims, which I do love, but it feels like I spend most of the time in IL2, etc, watching mission loading screens, and pounding back and forth on the time compress buttons while waiting for what feels like eternity to just get to the objective of the mission. I have no trouble quitting that game for the rest of the day after one mission, whereas with RB I could literally play an entire 1915-1918 campaign in a day.

#2097051 - 01/24/06 04:07 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlc82:
I can't figure it out, both MSFS2004 and Forgotten Battles run smooth as can be with full details cranked, and I can set everything on CFS3 to the bare minimum and it doesn't improve at all.
The map is CFS3 has more than either of those others. MSFS only puts stuff in certain areas, everywhere else is empty. Il-2's maps are small. The largest ones are still like 40-50% water or more.

CFS3 covers most of England, France, Switzerland, Austria, north Italy, 90% of Germany, the low countries, Denmark, etc, with cities and airfields that are always there. Put in lots of ground targets and your PC works hard. Of course, this means you can fly missions that go from London to Berlin in CFS3, which Il-2 won't allow.


The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#2097052 - 01/24/06 04:18 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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Thanks for the info Jedi Master, but it seems like if it were just running down my pc then turning down all of the detail options would have at least some effect, which it doesn't at all. Full detail and minimum detail run exactly the same.

#2097053 - 01/24/06 06:04 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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BTW, would extra RAM help at all? I'd like an excuse to bring mine up to 2GB \:D

#2097054 - 01/24/06 06:50 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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Winding Man Offline
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If that is the case then you have to reduce screen res as it means that the CPU is the limiting factor in your rig. Res in CFS3 is an overhead on CPU as well as GPU.

HTH

WM


OBD Software
#2097055 - 01/24/06 07:22 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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Reducing screen res is also not helping. I may have explained it wrong, it's not really an all around low frame rate, it's just a constant stutter. It'll go from stuttering, to really smooth (I'd say close to 50fps), back to stutter, making it almost unplayable.

#2097056 - 01/24/06 07:47 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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Joker_VMF124 Offline
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The reason that the original Red Baron and all those old Dynamix sims were so good is because of one person -- Damon Slye. He understood that campaign design is about storytelling.

#2097057 - 01/24/06 07:53 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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Yeah he was behind the Aces series too, which I never really played (was playing RB on a mac back then, AOE/AOTP never came out for mac) but heard great things about too. Even EAW had a little of whatever it was that made RB so great, but not to quite the same extent. Was another one that you could kick back and play for 15 minutes or so without feeling rushed though. I haven't played IL2 in a long time mainly because I just haven't felt like setting aside at least half an hour just to get going on a mission.

#2097058 - 01/24/06 08:07 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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mlc82 Offline
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Too bad we aren't all computer programming wizards with an unending supply money... Imagine the "SimHQ" developed flight sim series. Extensive, obsessive flight/damage modeling, graphics engine developed specifically to be both the best looking and smoothest running ever, and dynamic campaigns that make you feel like you're right there as a pilot (not as a commander of the entire thing!!!) ;\)

#2097059 - 01/24/06 08:29 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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Polovski Offline
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mlc82 try the optimising CFS3 tutorial?
http://www.com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=118

There was one for smoothness posted by bzhyoyo too - hopefully he will post it here if he sees this...


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#2097060 - 01/25/06 01:41 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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You should look to see if you're getting HD access when you get the stutter. If so, then more RAM likely will help you out. If not, then RAM may not solve it.


The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#2097061 - 01/25/06 02:50 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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WidowmakerUK Offline
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I know this is a daft suggestion...But have you got the Graphics Card and SoundCard Driver updates?

I have a Radeon, and CFS3 was hellish, til I updated the Drivers.


"When I shoot down an Englishman, My hunting instinct is satisfied for 20 minutes"... {Baron Manfred Von Richthofen)
#2097062 - 01/25/06 03:09 PM Re: Anyone played both OFF and RB3D with FCJ?  
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No105_ Savage Offline
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Remember too that RB3D was originally released as RB2, an incredibly ugly game with outdated 2D graphics. It took a "super patch" and an eventual re-release as RB3D before it was decent. And, unfortunately, the 3D version was only for people with Voodoo cards (due apparently to the fact that the Voodoo people were the only ones willing to work with Sierra/Dynamix on the issue).

I mention this, because people constantly rag on CFS3 for its unfinished state. What the O.F.F. team has wrought is similar IMO to what RB3D became, thanks to its Super Patch and add-ons like the FCJ. Problems like the ugly CFS3 terrain are not as bad in O.F.F. because the action occurs at lower altitudes, where the scenery looks really good (just look at bisher\'s shots of the Tripe in pursuit of the DR1). The ugly terrain shots that ones sees in CFS3 from high altitude, with everything blurry outside "the ring" are not as prevalent in O.F.F.

Considering that most of us need a glide wrapper these days to play RB3D, and because RB3D is not very Windows XP friendly, it seems more "broken" to me than CFS3/O.F.F. (sound problems, joystick problems, memory overload peoblems) Puts' idea of keeping an old machine around to play RB3D seems the best way of keeping that one on the HDD these days. I was reading that another warhorse, EAW, no longer works with newer graphics card drivers, so it is looking more and more like we need to hang onto our old boxes and not update them if we want to keep playing the sims that were released circa 1998-1999.

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