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#2085465 - 10/20/05 12:34 PM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
Tails Offline
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Registered: 08/03/05
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The problem with fighting twisting is the reason production Su-47's will have a more conventional wing. Sukhoi came to con conclusion we did with our X-29: They have the materials and can make it work well, but the maintanence and cost associated are not worth the gains.

As for missiles: Current Archers are a fair match for the 9X in off-bore capability, and R77 development is roughly paralleling the AMRAAM. I would not be at all surprised when both eastern and western 'long sticks' are released in ramjet versions at the same time. (FMRAAM vs R77M1)
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#2085466 - 10/20/05 03:20 PM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
GrayGhost Offline
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Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 3394
Archers are a match in launch envelope, yes, NOT in seeker technology. And that really does count.

R77 is NOT paralelling AMRAAM. The R77 may have a superior rocket motor to the AMRAAM, but that's where any sort of superiority ends, and the only similarity may be in range - the AMRAAM has superior fuze and actuators, and likely the entirety of the seeker, which makes it a better missile overall.

The AMRAAM has had a lot more research and work put into it ;\)
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#2085467 - 10/20/05 04:19 PM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
D-scythe Offline
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Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 945
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Tails:
The problem with fighting twisting is the reason production Su-47's will have a more conventional wing. Sukhoi came to con conclusion we did with our X-29: They have the materials and can make it work well, but the maintanence and cost associated are not worth the gains.

As for missiles: Current Archers are a fair match for the 9X in off-bore capability, and R77 development is roughly paralleling the AMRAAM. I would not be at all surprised when both eastern and western 'long sticks' are released in ramjet versions at the same time. (FMRAAM vs R77M1)
Look, I'm not ripping Russian equipment, but honestly, it's not a matter of who produces better equipment or who's scientists are smarter - it's a matter of money and time. I'm willing to bet that just the R&D budget for the United States Air Force is comparable (if not more) to the entire military budget of the Russian military forces. The Americans have that luxury, and it cannot be denied.

For example, the R-73/M1 was ahead of its time when it entered service, but it virtually hasn't changed at all since the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's seeker technology is comparable to the AIM-9L/M, not the AIM-9X - in that, it's not even close. Same with the AIM-120 and R-77 comparison; let's just say that the latter shouldn't even be considered to be in service with the Russian military considering how little of them are produced.

The AIM-120, meanwhile, is in widespread use in around 20 different countries, and have been upgraded ever since it's IOC. IMO, the R-77 is comparable to the AIM-120A, but against the AIM-120B/C, the only thing the R-77 has against them is it's fantastic agility (which means nothing if you don't have smart computers and a good seeker to exploit it to its full).

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#2085468 - 10/20/05 10:06 PM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
Doggie Offline
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Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 500
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If F22 does come in Lockon, I'll bet it would still lose to the Flanker for its amraam shot will give its position away, and the AIM120 will not be able to do much (thankx to Lockon) and lose track, and in the meanwhile flanker would have fired its R27ET or the other IR/SAARH/ARH long range sticks \:D
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#2085469 - 10/20/05 11:23 PM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
Guderian Offline
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Registered: 11/22/01
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Quote:

...but honestly, it's not a matter of who produces better equipment or who's scientists are smarter - it's a matter of money and time.
Exactly. The idea that the Russians can match Western technology appeals to our sense of fairness. Who doesn't like to root for the small company going up against the corporate colossus? Or the underdog competing against the world champion?

But real life doesn't work like that. Money talks.
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#2085470 - 10/21/05 04:39 AM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
Tom_Weiss Offline
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Registered: 03/19/02
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Quote:
Originally posted by guderian ente:
Quote:

...but honestly, it's not a matter of who produces better equipment or who's scientists are smarter - it's a matter of money and time.
Exactly. The idea that the Russians can match Western technology appeals to our sense of fairness. Who doesn't like to root for the small company going up against the corporate colossus? Or the underdog competing against the world champion?

But real life doesn't work like that. Money talks.
In terms of aerodynamics they are way way ahead.

And the latest Flankers are state of the art.
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#2085471 - 10/21/05 05:51 AM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
GrayGhost Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 3394
No, they're definitely not 'way ahead' in terms of Aerodynamics. They're ahead in terms of rocketry, probably.

Quote:

If F22 does come in Lockon, I'll bet it would still lose to the Flanker for its amraam shot will give its position away, and the AIM120 will not be able to do much (thankx to Lockon) and lose track, and in the meanwhile flanker would have fired its R27ET or the other IR/SAARH/ARH long range sticks [Big Grin]
If the F22 does come in Lock On, it'll be after the advanced weapon physics model, and the AIM-120 will do it's job, and the R-27 will fail to do its job, like in real life ;\)
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#2085472 - 10/22/05 10:52 AM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
Joolzybub Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 62
It would still be fun protecting other packages against MK's and such. Since Lock-On is in a fictitious setting, they can have the Russians/Chinise use Soviet Doctrine of "overwhelming force". 22 pilots would then have to prioritize who to use their missilse on.

Also, if they'd just add AG radar...

Oh well, one can dream.

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#2085473 - 10/23/05 08:18 PM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
Joe Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 17731
Loc: Bridgewater, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by guderian ente:
If you ask me the entire idea of having a modern air combat sim with the US on one side is becoming questionable. It's pretty obvious no one in the real world wants to fight them, and with the F-22 and F-35 it will get even worse.

Give me an India-Pakistan or Ethiopia-Eritrea sim instead. Good, solid, non-stealthy 1970s and 80s equipment. The kind of equipment that isn't stealthy and doesn't always work. The kind of equipment that gives people a fighting chance.
Jet Thunder is your solution to that.

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#2085474 - 10/27/05 06:22 AM Re: F-22 for LOMAC?
ijozic Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 126
Loc: HR
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe:
Quote:
Originally posted by guderian ente:
Give me an India-Pakistan or Ethiopia-Eritrea sim instead. Good, solid, non-stealthy 1970s and 80s equipment. The kind of equipment that isn't stealthy and doesn't always work. The kind of equipment that gives people a fighting chance.
Jet Thunder is your solution to that.
Or Strike Fighters/WOV..
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