#1773159 - 06/30/06 10:14 AM
Re: Slow Allied Force Fps With Evga Geforce 7800gs Co
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Para_Bellum
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Germany
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Hhe shouldn't experience less FPS with this card.
Mercenary, at what settings exactly are you playing AF? Resolution, anti-aliasing, anisotropic filtering? Are you using HAL or HAL+T&L?
"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"
Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm
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#1773162 - 06/30/06 11:45 PM
Re: Slow Allied Force Fps With Evga Geforce 7800gs Co
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 185
PaulB
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Ive had the opposite luck, Bond You couldnt *give* me another ATI. I'll spare you my "colorful" metaphors )
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#1773164 - 07/01/06 01:57 AM
Re: Slow Allied Force Fps With Evga Geforce 7800gs Co
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 545
TangoShadow
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Hi,
Usually in computing terms, HAL = Hardware Abstraction Layer - it handles the hardware in all respects.
T&L = Texture and Lighting. This was introduced originally as just another piece of software that was used in the then latest games, but required a beefy CPU to render. It was a method of drawing 3D lighting and textures in real-time.
Because of the CPU overhead, and the ever increasing complexity of "scenes", this was off-loaded onto the then emerging GPUs. This allowed the CPU to handle stuff like AI and more complex physics computations, whilst allowing the graphics card (which of course is optimized fror this kind of thing) to draw the lighting and the textures, and perform limited shadow computations, in real-time.
Todays cards are significantly more capable, as well as faster, than earlier GPU based cards.
The difference between a GPU card and a regular graphicvs card is that the GPU can actually be programmed to do something autonomously, as well as having memory dedicated to storing textures, whereas a regular graphics card still relies on the CPU to tell it what to draw, and when, and relying on main system memory to store the textures (slower).
Note that to take advantage of a GPU, the program must know to program the GPU to do these things. If it doesnt, the GPU just acts "dumb", drawing what the CPU asks of it. This of course requires CPU power, and means there is no advantage to having a GPU based card.
Falcon doesn't know how to take advantage of a GPU card (yet?), so upgrading from one type of card to another is *almost* pointless; the speed of the card is the *only* thing that will affect its performance, so going from card running at a certain speed to another of a similar speed, is totally pointless, even if the newer card has greater capabilities.
I hope that answers your question.
How much of a drop in performance did you see exactly?
--TangoShadow
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#1773168 - 07/01/06 09:34 AM
Re: Slow Allied Force Fps With Evga Geforce 7800gs Co
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Para_Bellum
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Mercenary, do you have applied anti-aliasing in your ATI control panel or is this setting set to application preference? AA can eat quite some performance, especially at higher levels (e.g. 8x).
"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"
Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm
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#1773169 - 07/01/06 01:57 PM
Re: Slow Allied Force Fps With Evga Geforce 7800gs Co
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 545
TangoShadow
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Hi, I agree with Para_Bellum, above. No effect On your spec machine, I'm surprised it is doing so well all sliders maxed to the right Which sliders? Small impact on frame rates Use MIPS - reduces Moire You might want to enable this for performance cockpit selection: default No effect texture quality: ultra (only 32 bit textures) Big effect right here. Use the middle setting (some 32-bit textures). There is nothing wrong wiht DXT3 textures at all. They are an accelerated (therefore quicker) texture. Running pure 32-bit textures is an ego thing IMHO. 32-bit textures are inefficient as hell. Very small impact here One setting I don't see mentioned here is your AA setting. This has the greatest impact on frame rates. Disable AA and see what it runs like then. --TangoShadow
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#1773170 - 07/01/06 01:58 PM
Re: Slow Allied Force Fps With Evga Geforce 7800gs Co
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 129
BwanaBob
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Originally posted by TangoShadow: T&L = Texture and Lighting. This was introduced originally as just another piece of software that was used in the then latest games, but required a beefy CPU to render. It was a method of drawing 3D lighting and textures in real-time. That would be Tranformation and Lighting. It wasn't really 'introduced' as it's fundamental to 3D graphics when it all started back in the 60's. Note that to take advantage of a GPU, the program must know to program the GPU to do these things. If it doesnt, the GPU just acts "dumb", drawing what the CPU asks of it. This of course requires CPU power, and means there is no advantage to having a GPU based card. GPU's have fixed functionality that perform basic Gouraud Shaded T&L and texturing. There's no impact on the CPU unless explicitly programmed to not use the GPU. Falcon doesn't know how to take advantage of a GPU card (yet?), so upgrading from one type of card to another is *almost* pointless; the speed of the card is the *only* thing that will affect its performance, so going from card running at a certain speed to another of a similar speed, is totally pointless, even if the newer card has greater capabilities. This is true for T&L, not pixel processing (i.e., resolution, FSAA, texturing, AF, etc). Hence, at this time, the bottleneck for most people is the CPU as it's doing the campaign, AI, flight model, ... and transformation/lighting ALL the vertices in the scene.
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#1773173 - 07/02/06 01:56 AM
Re: Slow Allied Force Fps With Evga Geforce 7800gs Co
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
AV8R
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Southern California USA
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On one of my systems, the frame rate jumped big time when I:
- switched from 32 to 16 bit, (1280res) - regular tiles (no high res)
Im getting 65-200 FPS in the 2D cockpit, and 50-70 in the No-HUD view and 35-50 in the 3D cpit and 25-40 in the 2D cpit forward view
Before making the above changes, I AFv107 was limping along such that I wasnt using AF on this system.
Intel P4 2.4 Ghz 1 Gig DDR ATI x700 pro, latest drivers, no AA/AF/MM WinXP SP2 NO HiTilesAF
The biggest gains are the 32 to 16 bit. Im not sure why this has such a profound difference. I cannot come close to the above FPS on my other system I normally use for AF:
Intel P4 3.4 Ghz H.T. 1 Gig DDR2 Corsair ATI x1600 pro, latest drivers, with 4xAA/4xAF/MM (running 1600x1200x32) WinXP SP2 Yes, HiTilesAF
Where I get around: Im getting 25-50 FPS in the 2D cockpit, and 35-70 in the No-HUD view and 35-70 in the 3D cpit and 25-50 in the 2D cpit forward view (some micro pauses with HiTiles)
I imagine if I go to 16 bit and no high res (or no HiTileAF), then Ill get much improved FPS on this system too.
AV8R
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