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#1770724 - 05/26/06 11:33 AM Re: What's this?  
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snacker Offline
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What the hell! I AM frustrated!


P4 3GHz / 2GB RAM / Nvidia GeForce 6800 512MB / WinXP / Logitech Force3D Pro /
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#1770725 - 05/26/06 11:37 AM Re: What's this?  
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NO nonono. It was a mistake. But I cannot help feeling frustrated about all this, after all this years of waiting for something that is already done but can't be released.


P4 3GHz / 2GB RAM / Nvidia GeForce 6800 512MB / WinXP / Logitech Force3D Pro /
#1770726 - 05/26/06 11:42 AM Re: What's this?  
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Perhaps what the comunity need is CLOSURE. A brand new sim with tons of new toys from a different co. and ZERO politics like XSI.


P4 3GHz / 2GB RAM / Nvidia GeForce 6800 512MB / WinXP / Logitech Force3D Pro /
#1770727 - 05/26/06 11:44 AM Re: What's this?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by snacker:
Perhaps what the comunity need is CLOSURE. A brand new sim with tons of new toys from a different co. and ZERO politics like XSI.
Hehe,

That would definitely be a plus and I am in agreement with you.

Problem is, XSI already has a wee bit of politics involved because of its lineage.

-PumpyHead

#1770728 - 05/26/06 03:08 PM Re: What's this?  
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Now i'm sad :rolleyes:

How can this be? Surely LP doesn't work just for a the profit, i do belive they also do their job out of love for the game. And if they could talk out a deal with other developers, like Stopworks, why couldn't they with OF? It has to be a misunderstanding between old time friends from both LP and OF.
Or perhaps, they are developing something similar on their own. I don't know. Things like this make me sad, it's like someone had a cure for my illnes and i couldn't buy it in the drug-store.

#1770729 - 05/26/06 05:42 PM Re: What's this?  
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The members of LP may not work just for a profit, but one has to remember that they and the license holder Graphsim MUST be able to produce a business plan that forecasts a profit.

You cannot just run a corporation without an expectation of making money. The IRS does not take kindly to that.

So, even if they are not in it for profit, they have to have funds to operate, do R&D, and pay distributors, licenses, etc...

LP's intention may have been to free Falcon, but now they must answer to the bottom line.

-PumpyHead

#1770730 - 05/26/06 06:00 PM Re: What's this?  
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John P Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by PumpyHead:
Quote:
Originally posted by John P:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Speedo:
[qb] Because this is the Falcon community. And Falcon tradition dictates that when 2 groups, particularly two groups developing different versions of F4, have some disagreement, they retreat back to their corners to sulk, emerging only occaisionally to deride their opponent and paint a glowing picture of themselves. Meanwhile, the fanbois representing the various factions slug it out in the forums.
I disagree.

From the very beginning, the development community of Falcon made repeated attempts to contact Lead Pursuit. Consider that the persons trying to contact LP were the same persons who worked hand in hand with members of LP before they incorporated.

These efforts at assisting were ignored. Even after LP's product was released, a majority of developers continued to try to contact LP to offer help, congratulations, etc... but these too were rebuffed.

Yes, you will see sniping from time to time, but you will also see considered opinions and support of LP from those who the members of LP have distanced themselves from.

In LP's defense, one must consider that they are now under control by Graphsim who likely does not wish to become embroiled in business baggage that LP brought to them.

So, it may seem like a fight from the corners, but that fight is mostly waged by what one might call the "AF fanbois" and the "mod fanbois."

I think with few exceptions, the community developers have been very respectful and some even continue to offer their expertise to no avail.(the cockpit code from one of the BMS team that was offered for free for example).

-PumpyHead
I don't think those comments were directed at anyone in particular necessarily; at least, not how I took them \:\)

Rather, a statement on the Fx world in general, and if so, again, very true imo.

Ah, the Delphi forums.... \:\)

#1770731 - 05/26/06 07:15 PM Re: What's this?  
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Not everybody was ignored that contacted LP in regards to contributing their works...only specific individuals...and undoubtedly for good reason.


To the man I aim, not the aircraft
IL2-1946 UP3 Aerial Combat Videos
#1770732 - 05/26/06 07:40 PM Re: What's this?  
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PumpyHead Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by KidVicious:
Not everybody was ignored that contacted LP in regards to contributing their works...only specific individuals...and undoubtedly for good reason.
Perhaps you have differing information, but speaking from my and from many other developers' experiences, LP made no return contact except for those discussing non-LP topics.

Some developers who publicly and privately stated that they were happy to have LP use their intellectual property were also ignored. Whether the ignoring was intentional or due to high e-mail traffic is unknown to me.

-PumpyHead

#1770733 - 05/26/06 07:44 PM Re: What's this?  
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If they ever post a vid showing off working GPS guided munitions I'm gonna send in an elite squad of assless chaps wearing commandos to steal their build of F4.

#1770734 - 05/26/06 07:45 PM Re: What's this?  
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The best course of action is to speak of ones own dialogue (or lack thereof)...and let others speak for themselves.

Either way, it's ultimately LPs choice who they open lines of communication with, and who they don't. If some are not included in those lines, oh well...too bad, I'm quite sure there are good reasons for declining this dialogue.


To the man I aim, not the aircraft
IL2-1946 UP3 Aerial Combat Videos
#1770735 - 05/26/06 08:12 PM Re: What's this?  
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PumpyHead Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by KidVicious:
The best course of action is to speak of ones own dialogue (or lack thereof)...and let others speak for themselves.
Hehe,

A course of action that you no doubt adhere to.

I do feel fortunate that the dialogue I was afforded with LP continued as long as it did.

It is rather unfortunate, however, that friendly and solicitous approaches were ignored and that only when warned of legal actions that LP initiated that dialogue.

Quote:
Either way, it's ultimately LPs choice who they open lines of communication with
Not necessarily. LP is under some constraints by the license holder.
Quote:
, and who they don't. If some are not included in those lines, oh well...too bad,
Indeed it may be too bad in some instances, not in others.
Quote:
I'm quite sure there are good reasons for declining this dialogue.
Are you sure as in "speak[ing] of ones own dialogue," or is it a guess on your part? ;\)

-PumpyHead

#1770736 - 05/26/06 08:21 PM Re: What's this?  
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It's all speculation, unless one is speaking from their own experience.

We can only assume why LP would not wish to perform multilateral workings with specific 3rd party individuals. It hasn't prevented them from being successful thus far, and I seriously doubt it would develope into a problem in the future.

Disgruntled former 3rd party developers are now left to do nothing but whine and complain about the business decisions made by LP in the past, and speculate on their decisions of the future.

I'm sure LP enjoys these remarks from the sidelines, while they continue to be successful with their developement of this sim. It's one of the perks for holding the keys to this sim, and those without control or only left to wallow in their own hate and discontent for the way things have unfolded, unable to move on constantly laden with frustration and malice.

Poor souls indeed.


To the man I aim, not the aircraft
IL2-1946 UP3 Aerial Combat Videos
#1770737 - 05/26/06 08:36 PM Re: What's this?  
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Closer to the topic. IMO, OF is cool and has some oustanding features and fixes. However, by comparison I feel that AF has much stronger support, overall stronger stability, and obviously a stronger following for obvious reasons.

Would I like to see some of the features OF has in AF? Absolutely. And visa versa, a contrast considering the groups will not combine efforts.

LP and AF are the pentacle for continuing commercial developement, and unless one is able to procure a copy of OF, or just wish to fly previous versions...this is all they have to suckle on outside the commercial fruits.


To the man I aim, not the aircraft
IL2-1946 UP3 Aerial Combat Videos
#1770738 - 05/26/06 08:45 PM Re: What's this?  
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PumpyHead Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by KidVicious:
It's all speculation, unless one is speaking from their own experience.
So it is speculation from you, yes?

Quote:
We can only assume why LP would not wish to perform multilateral workings with specific 3rd party individuals. It hasn't prevented them from being successful thus far, and I seriously doubt it would develope into a problem in the future.
I disagree. I believe that the reason multilateral workings began with 3rd party individuals was directly due to outreaches from those 3rd party individuals. At least, that is what Mr. Geisselman represented to me.

Quote:
Disgruntled former 3rd party developers are now left to do nothing but whine and complain about the business decisions made by LP in the past, and speculate on their decisions of the future.

For those who need to speculate, you are quite correct.

As far as disgruntled, I believe that applies more to parties not directly involved and not to the developers themselves.

Quote:
I'm sure LP enjoys these remarks from the sidelines, while they continue to be successful with their developement of this sim. It's one of the perks for holding the keys to this sim,
Are you again speaking from direct dialogue or are you speculating? LP does not directly "hold the keys" to Falcon AF. Graphsim does.
Quote:
and those without control or only left to wallow in their own hate and discontent for the way things have unfolded, unable to move on constantly laden with frustration and malice.

Poor souls indeed.
Am I to assume you have spoken with "those without control" and they have represented to you that they are "wallow[ing] in their own hate?" Or are you speculating?

-PumpyHead

#1770739 - 05/26/06 08:50 PM Re: What's this?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by KidVicious:
Closer to the topic. IMO, OF is cool and has some oustanding features and fixes. However, by comparison I feel that AF has much stronger support, overall stronger stability, and obviously a stronger following for obvious reasons.

Would I like to see some of the features OF has in AF? Absolutely. And visa versa, a contrast considering the groups will not combine efforts.

LP and AF are the pentacle for continuing commercial developement, and unless one is able to procure a copy of OF, or just wish to fly previous versions...this is all they have to suckle on outside the commercial fruits.
I agree with your asssessment. Of course, the fact that AF has stronger support may be very much skewed by OF's reluctance to release.

-PumpyHead

#1770740 - 05/26/06 09:01 PM Re: What's this?  
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That was the obvious reason I stated with regard to OF.

Back to your off topic: I don't make it a habit of posting what others feel or believe unless I can quantify it with facts or evidence.

Outside that realm, all we resort to is discussion, opinion, and speculation.

Yes, LP does in fact have control...they are in the drivers seat of commercial developement, while everyone else is 'all back of the bus n
sh!t'...

Yep, I have had discussions with those that are disgruntled. It doesn't take a genius to frequent a few boards and become witness to the malevolence exuberated by these poor sods.

Whilst I don't have the forumatic professionalism that LP members do (open to debate on some specific examples, but no one is perfect), I would be observing from the sidelines laughing my ass off at those kicking the wall and throwing temper tantrums from the way things have unfolded...donning the T'Shirt that says...

"Sucks to be you partna"..


To the man I aim, not the aircraft
IL2-1946 UP3 Aerial Combat Videos
#1770741 - 05/26/06 09:07 PM Re: What's this?  
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KidVicious Offline
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Oh, also:

We can only assume why LP would not wish to perform multilateral workings with specific 3rd party individuals. It hasn't prevented them from being successful thus far, and I seriously doubt it would develope into a problem in the future.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree. I believe that the reason multilateral workings began with 3rd party individuals was directly due to outreaches from those 3rd party individuals. At least, that is what Mr. Geisselman represented to me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice I said "Specific". This illustrates they did not wish to work with some individuals who 'reached out' to offer assistance.

The reasons for this we can only guess, but it would seem obvious for one reason or another they felt is wise to exclude specific individuals from working with them...a smart choice considering some of the individuals, not so smart in other cases....neither of which we have control over...comming back to my original point of discussing this being irrelevant.


To the man I aim, not the aircraft
IL2-1946 UP3 Aerial Combat Videos
#1770742 - 05/26/06 09:29 PM Re: What's this?  
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PumpyHead Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by KidVicious:
Yes, LP does in fact have control...they are in the drivers seat of commercial developement, while everyone else is 'all back of the bus n
sh!t'...
Maybe it's semantics, but here we disagree.

Atari Interactive, the IP holder of Falcon 4.0, does not know LP from Adam. Their limited license agreement is with Graphsim Inc.

LP may be in the back seat yelling directions, but Graphsim is driving.

-PumpyHead

#1770743 - 05/26/06 09:47 PM Re: What's this?  
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John P Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MilesTeg:
If they ever post a vid showing off working GPS guided munitions I'm gonna send in an elite squad of assless chaps wearing commandos to steal their build of F4.
Try Jane's F/A-18, for all the gps fun one could wish for \:\)

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