I have 3 versions of Falcon installed, SP4.2+BMS2.0, FF3.1+Cobra1.1.1, and F4:AF

In terms of stability in multiplayer, that goes to F4:AF

in term of graphics, FM, cockpit, skins, performance, and maybe realism goes to FF3.1+Cobra1.1.1 and SP4.2+BMS2.0. Between those 2, there's not that much "visable" differences but i prefer Free Falcon better. You should get it.

Doesn't really matter since you're not likely to see either of them released.

Well, Sorry, regarding features AF is far behind.

I can't and will never understand the "this is an F-16 sim" policy. If Il-2 Sturmovick would have satyed as an, well, IL-2 sim, it would not have been what it is today...

Expandind the limitations of the engine is the way to go instead of constraining o it...
Look at LOMAC, same narow minded attitude...

Il-2 Sturmovik and SF:P1/Wow are the most selled sims out there. Why? whell maybe variety has somemthing to do with it right?

Same plane, same theater, same procedures for the last 5years.. well yes I use to love the F-16, Now I want soemthing new, EVEN if it has the F-16 avionics moded into something else....

And excuseme, but I still have to see Falcon on Multiplayer with more than 8 players (witch is grate, I must admit aggaints the 2 to 4 tops of other Falcon versions) in the same session.

Not to mention that Dial Up guys can't even fly on line. Guys that were flying SP4...

yes I know, it being adressed in 1.07... OK, we'll see.

Is the cockpit you get in FF3 better than the default one in F4 AF?

Hi,

Before this gets into a slanging match about which is better - each sim has its merits.

F4:AF may not be as "feature packed" as F4 + SP3.1 etc.. but then if you are prepared to do what it takes to patch F4 up to that standard, do it! What's the problem?? Both sims sit side-by-side quite happily - not many sims/games can say THAT!

--TangoShadow

The dance is easy...once you get used to it.

Yea i would say so, especially after you install the free 3dsuperpit F-16 cockpit from http://www.cockpits.nl/index2.html

Well you have to take into consideration the realism factor. People who fly this game prefer realism and having a whole mess of aircraft will degrade that since it will just take too long to model each one accurately. That is why SF:P1/WoV leans a little towards the arcade side. Fighter Ops is trying to achieve a balance between realism and multiple aircraft and it is taking them a very long time. Il-2 could expand because those aircraft are mainly from the WWII era which is a lot less complicated than the avionics of modern planes.

Oh MY!

The inevitable "my falcon is better than your falcon" song.

Sung to the tune of the old Kennel Ration ad song. If you don't know the tune rent "Deomolition Man" they use it in that movie.

Setup:

Fill in he firstblank with the version that brings you closest to virtual extasy: AF, BMS, OU812, BR549, AF with sprinkles on top, hell whatever you want.

Fill in the second blank with your pet feature:
Curb feelers on the landing gears, Blow up doll auto-pilot, high def cup holder in the 3-D cockpit, extra pee bottle under the ACES II ejection seat, free cup of coffee with each in-flight refueling.

OK....ehem, me, me, me, me,mi.....


My falcon __________is better than your falcon_______
My falcon's better than yours
My falcon's better cuz it's got __________.
My falcon's better than yours.

That's essentially what we got here in this thread fellas. I couldn't pass up a slow curveball right over the plate. Way too easy.

I have to add, that the dance is not any more "confy" after doing it dozens of times. It actually gets on your freaking "Nerves". (;-)), Please let me know when was the last time anyone with FF3+cobra connect online with 16 players?

You're right AF will be used as a basis for LP's new sim. They will not start from scratch. But we'll have to wait and see if AF can be brought up to standard of the new sim. We'll see what happens.

I'm playing F4 since the day it was originally released. And I uninstalled F4/FF/SP/BMS the day after I got F4:AF.

The main point for me was simply stability. I don't know how many times I quit playing F4 in frustration because the game would crash after a succesfull mission while heading back home. Since I installed F4:AF I have had probably 3 CTDs, flying hundreds of missions. I can't actually remember the last time the game crashed. I take stability over eye candy and minor FM improvements every day.

F4 veterans forget how difficult (frustrating) installing F4 + whatever you want can really be. Sure..they've done it a hundred times and have it down to a science..but the new blood would look at the install FAQ and laugh and go pick up their X-Box. So that isn't the type of person you want playing then...well..then we will be a dying breed..I can tell you that much.

F4:AF brought a TON of new players in..plop the CD in and run it..and get 95 percent of all the goodness that was F4 + add-ons. Can it be better? Sure. Is it getting better? Looks like it. Will it ever reach the vaunted status of BMS/FF3..etc..? Doubt it. They could dress it up like Scarlet Johansson and iron out every bug and there would still be "veterans" slagging it. Just the way it will always be I suppose..

I flew the crap out of F4+FF2 and loved every second of it. I've flown the crap out of F4:AF and have loved every second of it. It's all good..whichever flavor you fly...

BeachAV8R

Well said. This was also one of the reasons I stopped flying the FF3, Cobra and BMS flavors of F4. Today, there are only two flavors I fly, and would not go back to those other flavors merely due to stability and MP useage. That is F4-Allied Force and Falcon4-SP4.2 ( not BMS or FF3 ). Like Para-Bellum has mentioned and others, it isn't the eye candy I look for as much as the stability. The way I see it, AF and SP4.2 have so much more to offer and are both quite better than the BMS and FF3 versions so many use to fly outside the cockpit to take screenshots with.
Is AF or SP4.2 perfect? no but no flavor is yet to date.
Do they have less bugs and/or problems than the other flavors? Thats a resounding yes in my experience with campaign, TE and multiplayer experiences from the last 4 years.
Thankfully, we each have free choices in this, and each of us will make that call based upon our own good and bad experiences. As Beach just wrote, the new breed will be up against daunting tasks: One, you cant go to your local storefront and buy Falcon4 anymore, only used copies on ebay for the most part. That coupled with the very long list of what we call the "dance" ( install procedure ) to install the various flavors to look the way some intend them too. The new breed of flyers that will replace us all in time, will with no doubt grab a copy of Allied Force, install only the latest patch since they are cumulative, and be flying in minutes. Not to mention if they should have a computer or hard drive issue and need to reinstall it due to corruption...it doesnt get any easier than the AF method. I fully agree with Beach here regarding this.

As I said over at Fighter Ops and adding to what beach said, we've seen a lot of new guys join us over at TG to fly AF that never would have come along if the original is all we had. AF has injected the community with a well deserved push and that can only be a good thing.

With all due respect, I’d like to politely disagree with you on your statement. I have flown all versions of Falcon and have not found any one of them to be distinctly better than the others. Each one has its own strengths and weaknesses. I also find suggestions that BMS or Free Falcon are “eye candy” only to be in error. There are quite a few bug fixes and new features found in the BMS patches that are not found in AF or SP4 without BMS. In some ways, AF still lags behind BMS and Cobra patches. While it is known that AF has improved stability for some people, there are others who have not had problems with BMS or Free Falcon.
Some of the AI fixes in the BMS patches have improved wingmen to where at least they are tolerable and sometimes helpful when flying. I still see posts of people flying AF that are frustrated with their wingmen. In this regard, I think BMS is clearly better. And flying FF3 with Cobra is still the only version where you can have AIFF, which is a wonderful addition. I also think leaving JDAMs and JSOWs out of AF was a huge mistake. Even if people don’t want to use the weapons due to wrong avionics, the AI flights still use them properly and I firmly believe it is more realistic to have them in the sim that to not. In some ways, I think you could argue that BMS and Free Falcon are more realistic.
While I applaud LP for doing what they are doing, it is clear to me and others that some of this was a step backwards and there are some aspects of BMS and Free Falcon that are way ahead of AF. I am looking forward to seeing what FF4 offers. I’m hoping that the emphasis on stability has gotten their attention. But I’m also skeptical if they will release anything at all. Cheers!

First of all LP has stated publicly that there will be a 1.07 patch and work on AF will continue for some time. 1.06 is not the end.

I have to applaud LP for making some of the hard decisions in regards to how AF will progress. Having been involved with the beta testing of the SPx series I remember how some minor changes or addons would cause unforseen problems mainly in the campaign. One of the big problems with the F4 SP/FF/AF is the interconnection of things in the campaign. The Falcon Campaign still remains the standard for flight sims. It's also one of the biggest pains in the ass for the coders.

The holy grail of F4 in all its iterations has been realism. Removing items from the sim that are not realistic just makes sense. As long as GPS munitions are deployed like mavericks it's not realistic. GPS munitions would have to be targeted from the intelscreen in the 2D world to be deployed realisticly. The HUD symbyology was never correctlly added to the sim for GPS munitions as well. JSOWs glide to the target and JDAMs drop like bombs. They DON'T roar off like a rocket powered maverick. The decision to remove them was the right one. Just like fixing the mini nuke effect of the CBU-58 with a BA set on 9999. Should GPS munitions be in AF? Well yes. But only if they can be added in the correct manner with the proper avionics. And only if they can be added without FUBARing something else in the sim. The current codebase for F4 may not support the inclusion of these weapons without a total rewrite of the campaign code. And that means a whole new sim.

Krunk, thats cool, we can agree to disagree as there are many in both camps.

My feelings exactly Snowfalcon.
Cheers.

While the previous version of jdams, etc. may have been unrealistic, it's no more so than having current/future campaigns in AF.......without them

Well, would it be fair to stick with AF to play on while I learn the system and how to use it? Then upgrade later or at least watch for what FF4 will provide, or I don't know. Maybe graphics are for LOMAC or a modded FS9?

Oh yeah, a side question. It is possible to fly other planes in F4? That sounds pretty cool! Obviously the FM wouldn't be as realistic as dedicated sims, but it would be cool regardless. Or so I would think...