Personally I think the CH gear and Cougar are very comperable in functionality. The Cougar can require a little more patience sometimes, but I much prefer the feel of it, and the great ease of programming with Foxy.

I can't stand the CH throttle though. Between the linear movement and the button/hat layout, it drives me crazy. That's personal preference though.

I think that the Cougar will be the last HOTAS I own for a very, very long time... and though Guillemot's support is looking more and more iffy to me, I think that the very hardcore community behind the Cougar will stand up and keep it goind. These are the guys that brought us UberCougar (and it's children), hall sensors, FCC, FSSB, and everything else after all.

I think alot of people choose cougar because it is the only controller on the market that exactly replicates the actual F-16 controls. for those who want that level of realism there simply are no other options.

I find it hard to believe that if CH offered a more accurate throttle they wouldn't sell well. They might even draw some people away from cougar who (like me) want the security of active customer support.

As it stands now when I finally make the jump to a more expensive controller setup, I will look alot harder at dealing with the expense/shortcomings of the cougar because of the level of realism it allows, than I would if I could get the same functionality in CH gear.

Having used both (though I've only used the CH gear for a limited time, granted) I just find the Cougar's throttle more functional. Mainly in the button layout, but it's especially nice having those rotaries for trim in prop sims. The realistic layout just happens to be better (probably for a reason ) IMO.

Now if CH would make a realistic F-15/18 split throttle, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Odds are that I'll end up getting their Flight Yoke and Throttle Quadrant one of these days for civvie sims anyway.

Debby,

I live just down the street from you guys in Shadowridge and thus have always been to your offices to purchase my equipment. I have to say, you have the friendliest front-desk receptionist. I hope you walk down to her and let her know someone has nothing but good to say about her. The last time I was there, you guys replaced my joystick which had its cable chewed through by my dog. Very friendly service. I'm happy all around with CH Products.

Comical, I used to Fly 16's I still think the Cougar Blows Goats

However i Did stay at a CH Products beachouse Last Weekend, Spent 2 days with the Folks at Ch.

Good Time, Great people, even better product.

I agree that I was happy with my unmodded Cougar and it was the FCC that got me into the mods. Note guys that the FCC is no longer in production since Arend can't find a source for a needed part

However there is the FSSB and the Ribbstick. Hehe stay tuned for more info on the latter...

As for CH. I has happy with my CH pedals until I decided to build my own realistic movement pedals with brakes. As I told the CH guys this year at Oshkosh, I'd fly more CH stuff if their was a force mod (or stock force) instead of their floppy sticks and the throttle wasn't so damn unrealistic and without detents. They've always stood by their products.


As for Saitek, I went through 5 X36s in about half the time I've had my one Cougar (although you could probably count it as two Cougars due to the mods to be fair ) My second HOTAS that gathers dust is a X45 that seems much more relaible than the X36s although they are the same in most respects. The little stick time I've had witha relative's X52 was impressive but again Saitek had problems with early versions of the X52. I have had a PC Dash for longer than I can remember as an ICP and it is great! I'll cry the day it finally dies

I'm using a totally stock Cougar, and I'm just as happy as can be with it. A force control mod would be cool, but I won't bother until the stock gimbals and pots wear out. I've only owned it for a few months, and so far I haven't had any of the nightmare problems that have been reported to be so common with it.

I also own a Saitek X-52, and I can say that there's a good reason the CH and Cougar setups cost almost two-and-a-half times as much. The main features of the X-52 are awkward design, unintuative programming, crash-prone software, and above all, cheap construction.

I haven't owned a CH stick since the early 90s when I bought my first computer and an original CH Flightstick (a plain-Jane, two axis, two button gameport stick). I wasn't all that impressed with it only having two buttons, but the damn thing lasted forever. I used it for a couple years exclusively, and then I kept dragging it out of the closet whenever my latest whizbang Logitech had to be shipped for warranty service for the umpteenth time. The electronics were solid as a rock, and I finally got rid of it when one of the return springs broke just from metal fatigue. From what I've seen on CH's website, it doesn't appear that they've changed the construction of their products much.

x-52 is a toy..
the cogar feels more like a tool


=D

I use a Cougar/Throttle/RudderPedal combo and a Fighterstick/ProThrottle combo. I like them both, but for slightly different reasons.

The Cougar is excellent for jets in general and the F-16 in specific. I can't imagine a better stick for F4:AF.

On the other hand, I agree with AV8B, when he said that As I am very much a TM Cougar advocate, I will say that it is not the best choice for WW2 prop sims due to the amount of yanking and banking you must do. Fighting a 22 pound spring and trying to hang in on a multi-turn dogfight is quite the workout.

I have also found this to be true for OFF and RB3D. With the fighterstick, it is much easier to line up the target.

(I do have a couple of small complaints about the Fighterstick, though. I have reasonably big hands, but it is still a bit of an awkward reach to push the second button on the stick. And the little shelf (for lack of a better word) that the heel of the hand rests upon is a little small for my taste.)

So for me, at least, it is a Cougar for jets, a Fighterstick for props. Different tools for different tasks.

DKM

Does it have anything to do with a poll you guys ran a few months back .

Well, I know that the 22 pound spring is not intended literally. But, for those who care, by my actual measurement with a precision electronic scale -- the actual force for full deflection of my stock-cougar was 5 lbs.

5 lbs was due to the stiffness of the rubber boot. With the boot removed, the force dropped to under 1.5 lbs -- a light feel like a lot of other spring-resistance sticks. Actually, I suggest removing the rubber boot for the best feel and overall control on the stock Cougar.

These days I use the Realsimulator Cougar FSSB force-mod. I set my "full deflection" to 3 to 4 lbs (depending on my mood). The control and immersive feel can't be beat -- once one gets used to the fact that the stick does not move much (i.e. as a real F16 stick does not move much).

The x52 has blue lights.

I wanna get the force mod that allows you to crank full deflection up to 40 pounds, but I've got to build a custom desk to bolt the damn thing down first.

See my article on the Ribbstick. It's not forty pounds but pretty close to the 25 that the aft stick for the F-16.

The Realsimulator FSSB also allows force to be adjusted up to the actual F16 numbers -- very configurable. Interestingly, the real-F16 force is different in the X axis than the Y axis -- which makes sense because the muscles used to move X are not as strong as those available for Y (and G forces during a dogfight also enter in I think).

Snake122, nice article The Ribbstick, due to its intended mounting and use, seems to be more suited to using at high resistance. All in all, without a firm mounting and a wrist rest (as you suggest), high forces are not too practical. But, if one is trying for the actual F16 effect -- there it is

On a different tack.

While the cost of a modded Cougar seems high to some, one can think of this aspect.

Many here pay out thousands of dollars over a several year period on computer upgrades to play games -- and easily justify them. Then there is the hundreds spent over time on the games themselves.

The Cougar plus mods can cost several hundred dollars. But, you do it once. Considering the realism and immersion factor, its a very reasonable "cost of flight simming" -- in keeping with all the other costs of flight simming, I think

Heck, with the Franken Potato CH mod, even CH HOTAS are starting to be modded. I guess CH stuff isn't perfect out of the box either Anyhow, I would not argue the CH mods are not worth it -- they are, for the same reasons.

This remark from Colt40Five is spot on. We don’t really have another choice. It always surprises me that a simproducer who would use too much fantasy in his cockpit design would be trashed by any serious simmer, while a HOTAS producer like CH and Saitek can come up with totally unrealistic setups and they get away with it.

Exactly, that's why I'm such a big fan of the X-52. Why pay $200 for a stick/throttle that's just as much fantasy as the X-52 at half the price? and without an arched throttle, juicy adjustable handrest, ability to switch profiles on-the-fly and display button functions on the LCD, twist rudder (again saves $$$) and as someone mentioned earlier blue lights!! lol

Which to some are reasons NOT to buy the 52

While the 52s more advanced (cougar/ch level) software is a plus...I can't stand twist rudders and I hate funky lights on computer gear.