Or should I say,,,, it is impossible to keep from getting shot down.

Flying a spit in instant action, 109's set to novice.
, Still after dogfighting for a while one will get on your tail and shoot you down. You have no idea its their and it is impossible to shake.
Very unrealistic. Cant imagin what its like if 109 is set to hero.
So far I have yet to have fun with this sim.
unless everyone thinks its fun to get shot down every flight.
If ww2 was like this britian would be speaaking german now.

Pawgy

Pawgy,

Everyone does not get shot down, you just need experience to find and locate the enemy. The games requires some time to learn all the correct keys, strategy, and maneuvres just like a real pilot who took months to train.

Can I suggest the following until you get some experienced:

Go to the BDG.txt in your BOBII folder:

Open the Bdg.txt and use notepad to set the following parameters (these are in the 2.04 user's manual you can download above in a sticky thread and review):

Novice_AI=ON #Only valid in Instant Action missions
Novice_Target_Size=ON
Novice_Stronger_Bullets=ON
Novice_Gunnery_Predictor=ON
Novice_AI_Airspeed_Fraction = 0.50

Do a save of notepad after the changes above.

Start with the Dog Fight 1-on-1 and dog fight turkey shoot missions so you only need to keep track of one enemy A/C and stay with those missions until you learn how to padlock and unpadlock and use the view keys and hat on your stick (again see the 2.04 user's manual).

Buddye1
Thanks for the tips. I will give them a try.
I just can't seem to pick up the enemy behind me untill its to late.
If I fight aginst 4 planes I can keep track of them. any more than that and i'm out of luck.
My mates go after the bombers and leave me to fight the 109's.

I'm sorry, but I don't get shot down all the time. I do have quite a lot of experience though, probably 5-6 hundred hours, literally. My guess is that by now you have a few hours. Do you think that's enough? This is no arcade game, its a simulator. Persevere and you will be rewarded.

I could point out that your symptoms are almost identical to what happened in 1940.
New pilot,8 hours solo on type,chucked in the deep end ,died within minutes of his first combat never having seen the enemy that shot him..
I could also ask,Do you want a sim where you can jump into a cockpit and instantly be an ace?
Whats the point in that,you would be bored in a week..The fact that there is a learning curve makes every step up the ladder mean something.You would'nt be chucked a flying helmet and told to jump in and go in real life,so why think you can do it in this sim..
One of the main rules of air combat as stated by Sailor Malan was "Never fly straight and level for more than 30 seconds in the combat area",how true in this sim.
I have now started reaching the stage where i am surviving the combats,not scoring but at least getting the plane back to fight another day.I consider that to be one hell of an achievement on it's own.
The majority of pilots in the B o B DID'NT shoot anything down,let alone be aces. :p

A lone wolf strategy will not work in BobII. You must fight with your Squad. If your Squad is assigned to fight the 109's you should also engage the 109's then you will be targeted by much fewer 109's (maybe only one).

Like a real pilot you strategy and methods are you survival.

Be patient as you learn, BobII is worth it IMHO.

Last ditch solution! Start a mission, stay on the ground, follow your mates moves through external cams, fix them tea on their return!
At nights throw parties with dames in the off mess(?) then they wont realize you´re missing up there. The fighting calms down later that fall/winter and you can go up again..............
Seriously, fly, be shot down, fly again, be shot down, fly again, be shot at, and again and again and over again, fly and find yourself behind an enemy throw a few rounds, again and again, again, now you see some white smoke pouring out of his AC and after a few more hrs of flying you´ll see black smoke from his plane, then your first kill comes after a lot of trial and error!
BUT DON`T GIVE UP, learning is a pain in your buttocks!
Good luck! (and)
Happy New Year!

Thanks again for all the replys.
I can see it is a tough simulation and I am trying to see it through.
From your replys it sounds like each of you may have exparienced many of the same deaths as I have when starting anew so I will keep trying.

Regards
Pawgy

Pawgy,

If its any consolation, I was surprised at how "good" the AI are when I first played BoB2 and I had alot of time in other combat flight sims. It took a while getting used to the idea that just surviving a mission - much less shooting someone down - was an accomplishment. Even now it is still not easy.

Also, for the next 2.06 patch there will likely be a much more noticeable difference in the skill levels when one selects Novice, Poor, etc. for the opposition. That issue was specifically worked on by Buddye and is being beta tested as I write this and it seems to be working well.

Use the "T" key to display the A/C's name if it helps you to keep him in sight. I initially used it constantly and now only find that I have to use it sparingly.

Do you have TrackIR? That is a BIG help (and really boosts sense of immersion) IMO, not just in BoB2 but in any flight sim that supports it.

"Situational Awareness" does not come easy. Being able to determine multiple - or even a lone - threat's location in relation to yours in 3 dimensions and with speed to be accounted for etc. is what I mean. I'm not even sure if "SA" is something that can even be formally taught or to what degree people have it or don't. Most "real life" fighter pilots supposedly have significantly better SA than the average person and it comes almost naturally to them... I guess to a degree this may be a trait in the population at large as well, including PC gamers.

I wish I could be more helpful on this issue and hope you can stick with it. I know it may be a bit frustrating but start slow and easy against one enemy and work your way up from there.

With time you will get better - we all did.

Try to look behind you at least once every 10-15 seconds. Try to turn to fully clear your six at least once every 30 seconds. If you have a powerful enough PC, make sure mirrors are on. Get as much altitude as you can before you meet the enemy. Staying alive really does take practice.

I use the "T" key frequently. I don't like to leave it on when I start getting close. If I did not use it at all I would never see the enemy.

I do not have "trackIR'. I am not even really sure what it is. If it is an external add on to your head I am sure i would not use it no matter how good it is.

What are mirrors? I have not ever figured out how to look directly behind me.

I play Grand prix legends a lot and the original AI in that sim were unbeatable.
The game failed miserably untill a mod make brought out an AI utility that could be set at any level. GPL is now still going strong after almost 9 years.

All games(Sims)would be more popular if the AI could be set at any level. The player must be competitive to have fun and that is what gaming is all about. As you get better you make the AI a little tougher.

I don't like reading that novice is for kids.It might be for Kids and folks that don't fly much or just plain have poor reactions or can't see as well or don't have their computers set up perfectly
It might also be for kids and old men like me. I'm 71 but i still buy and try to play just about every ww2, ww1 and race game that comes out..

If the 2.06 patch makes the AI a little easier then I hope it is released ASAP.

Agin, I would like to thank the good people of this forum for their tips and words of
encouragement.

Everything In BOBII sure looks good and it runs on my computer with out a hiccup.

As i said, i'll keep trying and maybe I will get a little more help in 2.06

Happy New Year
Pawgy

Head on over to
Natural Point

cut & paste from their site.

TrackIR Changes Everything ::
Experience real time 3D view control in video games and simulations just by moving your head! The only true 6DOF head tracking system of its kind. TrackIR takes your PC gaming to astonishing new levels of realism and immersion!

The TrackIR 4:PRO is NaturalPoint's premium product - the best optical headtracking system available.
Moving Your Head Changes the View ::

As you move in your chair and rotate your head small amounts : your game-view will precisely correspond.

You never have to look away from the monitor because all aspects of your motion are amplified and adjustable.
Degrees of Freedom ::


There are only 6 ways you can move around in 3D space. There are 3 ways to lean, and 3 ways to rotate.

The technical term for all of these movements is "6 Degrees of Freedom" (or "6DOF").

True 6DOF support is one of the main things that puts TrackIR well ahead of any other input device.
TrackIR Enhanced™ Mode ::

When a game developer builds support for TrackIR directly into the code for their game, we call that game "TrackIR Enhanced". The latest TrackIR Enhanced titles are always listed here.

TrackIR is a new form of input that doesn't affect the mouse, keyboard and joysticks you are already using. Those other inputs are now freed to do the things you'd expect your hands to be doing, completely independent of your new head-tracking view controller.

I have TrackIR 4:PRO and I wont fly without it now...

Decca

Sailor Malan had these tips in regards to airfighting. They are loosely based on World War One Ace Oswald Boelcke's Dicta which still stands to this day.

1. Wait untill you see the whites of his eyes. Fire short bursts of 1 to 2 seconds and only when your sights are definitely 'ON'.

2. Whilst shooting think of nothing else, brace the whole of thebody, have both hands on the stick, concentrate on your ring sight.

3. Always keep a sharp lookout. "Keep your finger out!"

4. Height gives You the initiative.

5. Always turn and face the attack.

6. Make your decisions promptly. It is better to act quickly even thought your tactics are not the best.

7. Never fly straight and level for more then 30 seconds in the combat area.

8. When diving to attack always leave a proportion of your formation above to act as top guard.

9. INITIATIVE, AGGRESSION, AIR DICIPLINE, and TEAM WORK are the words that MEAN something in Air Fighting.

10. Go in quickly - Punch hard - Get out!

Follow these rules and your chances of surviving increase just that little bit more

Hi Pawgy,

Track IR (a/k/a TIR) is a device that is a little clip that fits on any standard baseball cap or visor. There is a matchbox sized piece that mounts on the top of the monitor and it "reads" the movement of your head to move the viewpoint on the screen.

One of the Shockwave forum members is a gentleman named Joachim. He was a pilot in Germany during WWII and is in now in his 80s. He got into BoB2 a few months ago. He ended up buying TrackIR and was very happy with it as he (and almost everyone else that has it) found it greatly increased the sensation of actually flying. TrackIR is supported by many flight sims, not just BoB2. If you are a member there, you may want to send him a Private Message via the forums for his opinions.

It is certainly not necessary to have Track IR to play BOB2 and unless you regularly play flight games it may not be worth it. If you do however, it is one of the greatest devices I ever bought for flight sims, and rivals the benefits of using a joystick. Here is a little demo video clip I did showing how TIR works in BoB2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2051208934938168866&hl=en

NOTE: In the bottom right corner of the view window click on the small "drop down arrow" to resize the video if you want.

Don't be discouraged by the description of some of the "Novice" settings. Many of us use some of those features (I do, I have stronger bullets ON). My friends who are hard core gamers (but not big flight simmers) have to use most of the settings Buddye mentioned when they come over and play BoB2.

I think with 2.06 you will find the differences in enemy skill levels much more noticeable. I do not have a definite date but it is likely not more than a couple or three months away, maybe alot sooner.

Have a great New Year and a healthy and prosperous 2007.

Like Trumper says!

Those guys with 9 to 10 hrs. on a Spitfre,, going into real dogfights!!! I can't imagine.

In real life flying , 10 hrs is not enough to learn anything.

If this sim were any more realistic,,, I would spend the next month hiding in the nearest cloud bank. lol

Pawgy,

Hats off to you my friend. I hope to be simming in my seventies too.

Some very good advice here. I had no ides how bad a virtual pilot I really was until I started playing this. Now I use this sim as my primer for all others.

The way the AI can throw those 109s around is incredible. What I found more incredible is that after awhile I found I was doing the same in my Spit almost subconciously my feet were actually using the rudder, it was the only way I could follow them. I found myself saying so thats what the rudder is for. And my AI is still on novice and most likely will be for the foreseable future.

I am still terrible at this game, but I have improved beyond recognition in all the others as a result. Oh and I'm a TrackIR devotee too. If you can adjust to it (and it does take some getting used to) you will find it indespensible for finding and following those damn AI.

That made me smile. I had exactly the same issue a while back. I thought a twist grip on my joystick would suffice, but it didn't really, so I got some CH pedals. Hugely helpful. Especially when you have a perforated wing.

(I also jammed a bit of Lego under each pedal to stop the things tipping forward. That's for breaking in driving sims which aren't my thing.)

In fact the very exercise (crossed controls) that I had been using in BoBII for tricky landings with damage, was the first thing my flying instructor had me doing in a Cessna 152. Needless to say, we didn't need to spend long on it, because of the sim..

Again I must say , thanks for the very interesting and informative replys.

PC Simmers sure do get into their hobby.Both racing and flying.

It also seems like we get a lot of real flyers or, x-flyers. That says a lot for the computer imersion factor.

I checked on the TIR site but i'm afraid it is not fo me. Thanks for the info though.

Regards
Pawgy

SO Pawgy, was it worth buying?

Also, the one who gets you is the one you don't see.

Personnally, after learning to apply Boelke's Dicta, I have a little trick that works for me. If I have speed, and altitude, I think offensively. If I'm low and slow, I think defencively. If you're out of altitude, clear the combat area, and climb back up to altitude, then re-enter the fray. You won't get tons of kills this way, but you'll at least get a chance to land your plane.

Even when flying the Spit, think like a Hurricane pilot. Make a pass, and get back up to altitude to make another. If you discover a pursuer, the Spit has a better turning climb, than the 109. Also a little rudder tightens your turn too. The higher wingloading of the 109 prevents it from following.

And even the Spitfire Pilots on a History Channel program stated that by the time you spoted someone in the mirror, it was usually too late, and you better think about tossing the canopy and bailing out.

But still after flying the original Rowan's game and the latest version which is six years of flying this thing, I still get knocked down 3 to 4 times out of every 10 flights on average. And half of those are because I get too close and can't turn out of the damaged plane's path before colliding.