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#1722459 - 08/12/06 01:47 PM How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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609 Recon Offline
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I'm considering picking up this game for the offline, single player aspects.

If anyone would be so kind as to answer my questions:

1. how is the immersion?
2. how is the AI - are they dummies, or are they smart and well programmed? Not to start a flame war (please no!!!), but compare to IL2 AI for reference points for me if possible.
3. I use ch pro stick, ch pedals, with x45 throttle and trackir expansion - does the interface make it easy to setup multiple js configurations like mine? (again, think IL2 - it's fairly easy - is this?)
4. what type of system to play? does it get really 'laggy' with frames in large dogfights - or does it handle it quite well?
5. Can you play for either side?

Thanks!


S!
Recon
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#1722460 - 08/12/06 05:08 PM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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Trumper Offline
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I have just reloaded the game and trying out the Track ir vector expansion and just enjoying flying around.
I am having probs mapping my x 45 ,seems hit and miss and not sure if the game remembers the settings all the time.
It is alot better post 2.04 patch than before and i am just enjoying the basics at the mo.
I dont suppose you have a good profile on your Expansion pack i could try ,

#1722461 - 08/12/06 06:46 PM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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Buddye1 Offline
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You might want to check out the Shockwave forum also.

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/index.php

I have no idea what your computer spec's are with respect to performance. Is yours about equal to mine?

Yes, you can play for either side.

Go ahead and download the 2.04 User's Manual should help with information also.(sticky Thread above)

Did not answer your other questions as I work on BOBII so I am a bit too close for opinions.


Intel I7 920 processor (2.66GHz, 8MB cache), 6GB DDR3 Triple Channel @1333MHz, 1.8GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295, Sound Blaster X-Fi PCI Sound Card, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit , CH Fighter Stick & Pedals ,TrackIR4 Pro thanks to BobII crew.
#1722462 - 08/13/06 02:57 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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The "Commanding the Luftwaffe" post is a pretty good indication of the immersion factor. Im still learning all this sim has to offer, but it's going to stay on my hard drive a long time.

You can play the sim from both sides perspective but its designed with a slant on tactics towards the British. But I got over that pretty quick. I even find myself in a spit or a hurricane from time to time.

AI, well its acceptable to me, but thats kind of a personal thing, and you might come to a totally different opinion.

For a WWII combat flight simmer, I cant see why anyone wouldnt have this added to his collection. From just the tactical aspect as the BOB unfolds, its a trip back in time, the way the sim is setup. I can even visualize, some sassy british baby doll pushing chits across a big table map of the channel. Yummie. Whoops, spilt my cup of tea!

#1722463 - 08/13/06 03:57 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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NealG Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 609 Recon:
I'm considering picking up this game for the offline, single player aspects.

If anyone would be so kind as to answer my questions:

1. how is the immersion?
2. how is the AI - are they dummies, or are they smart and well programmed? Not to start a flame war (please no!!!), but compare to IL2 AI for reference points for me if possible.
3. I use ch pro stick, ch pedals, with x45 throttle and trackir expansion - does the interface make it easy to setup multiple js configurations like mine? (again, think IL2 - it's fairly easy - is this?)
4. what type of system to play? does it get really 'laggy' with frames in large dogfights - or does it handle it quite well?
5. Can you play for either side?

Thanks!
Hi Recon;

1. Ah, well, that's subjective....hehe....we all have differing levels of what we find immersive. I find it fairly easy to quickly lose myself into the world of the struggling RAF pilot during the battle while in the campaign portion; the voice and chatter being of the most help. Pull up the campaign, begin as a pilot for your favorite squadron, and watch as the phases unfold, accompanied by the clatter, chatter, and atmospheric sound -- and me, suddenly, I'm there. But -- your mileage may vary.

2. I hesitate on that one.....I can only say the AI is 'different'. In some ways it is 'dumber'....but, also 'smarter'. It has a survival instinct...it has the ability to 'know' when to attack and when to get outta Dodge. By the same token, given certain circumstances, it will refuse to engage even when attacked ( though it will try to evade ). It has some rather interesting evasive moves, though this effect is considerably improved since 2.04. Gunners are deadly, if you approach wrong, but not of the same 'dead-eye' quality as IL2's. If available and in position to do so, a AI squadmate will try to clear your tail....and inform you they are doing so. Without your needing to ask for help. I guess what I am saying is that this is yet another one not easy to answer....the AI here can be just as dumb....and just as smart...as the IL2 AI. It's just....well...different. \:\)

3. I use CH FS, PT, and PP....but with BoB1 patched up to BDG v 0.99, I used a full X45 with PP first, then CH FS, PP, and X45 throttle, and finally my full CH setup, with no setup problems at all. And the controller routine seems relatively unchanged in BoB2. Setting up is similar to IL2...thankfully, or I might never have gotten it done. It's a bit more sensitive...might take a couple of tries to get the correct axis to 'set', but it does work. Make sure you get the revised manual, so you know what screens to use -- that part is a tad more complicated to figure out ( but so is IL2's, if you have to go into IL2config to adjust axis' ). I had no trouble setting up multiple controllers....and I am pretty much a idiot. \:\)

4. Another not so easy to answer. But, basically, you need a system that can run DX 9 code fairly well. I'd say, if you can run IL2 in Perfect mode with reasonable performance, you should be able to run BoB2 at mostly quality settings reasonably well. On my rig ( I run IL2 in Perfect, water at 2, effects off, no 3d gunners, and get great performance in all but the most demanding missions ) running BoB2 at 17 to 30 frames is equivalent to running my IL2 setup at 45 to 65 frames. Here again, the revised manual can give you a idea of what settings might have the most impact, and what effect those settings will have on your overall experience. My rig: P4 3.2, 1 gig DDR RAM, Nv 6800GT 256 meg vid card, Audigy 2 sound. Smooth as silk, and lovely graphics, with most settings at 'default'. And they have done a fine job of picking default settings for both quality eye candy and good performance.

5. Ah, a easy one. Yes. \:D

Taken with others' responses, hope this helps in your decision, whatever it may be.


NealG
I will not lead, nor will I follow, and if you want to come through here you have 3 choices: go around; ask nicely; or bring a lunch -- you'll be here a while.
#1722464 - 08/13/06 10:41 PM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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609 Recon Offline
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Thanks guys - and the comparisions to IL2 on system specs helps me.

I have a 2500+ , 1 gig memory with a new 7800 nvidia card.

I think I need to pick this up - any more comments are welcomed.


S!
Recon
#1722465 - 08/14/06 10:32 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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Osram Offline
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I may be biased, but here is my take:

Quote:

1. how is the immersion?
Excellent - this is where BoB(2) shines.

Quote:

2. how is the AI - are they dummies, or are they smart and well programmed? Not to start a flame war (please no!!!), but compare to IL2 AI for reference points for me if possible.
Not perfect - it is in no sim yet - but they are good combat pilots (unless skill and/or morale is low, of course) and "human".
It seems we still have some "ufo effects" but it is better now than ever in the ongoing BoB evolution.

Quote:

3. does the interface make it easy to setup multiple js configurations like mine?
multiple controlers themselves are possible and not much harder than single ones IMVHO. However, admittedly, the interface is not intuitive.
There is a thread (IIRC sticky) on the Shockwave forums that should get you going.

Quote:

4. what type of system to play? does it get really 'laggy' with frames in large dogfights - or does it handle it quite well?
The system you quoted in your last post is good. Here is my "specs hints" :

CPU - the more the better. Big parts of the development were on a 1.33 GHz AMD, this is on the low side.
main memory - size is almost completely harmless, 512MB is enough. Speed is important like in any game/sim, but IMHO no longer more important than in other games.
GPU - a 9800 is good, but better is better ;\)
Video ram - I would say 128 MB is minimum, especially with the upcoming MultiSkin + other features. 256MB is better, IOW we make use of the extra VRAM.

Do NOT look at the fps counter. The game is not optimised for fps but for smoothnes, as IMHO that is what people REALLY want and not a high number.
For example, quite a few people say BoB2 is smoother and has lower fps than Il2 at high(ish) settings on their system. [Edit - reading on I see one of those people is even in this thread \:D , when I wrote my post I had not read all other answers yet. This is not too surprising since we added extra "frame rate smoothening" code to BoB2]

#1722466 - 08/14/06 11:41 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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rollnloop. Offline
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There are immersion breakers, and i mean deep ones, still left, but, if BoB has been a "promising" sim for years, many many bugs have now been dealt with, it's still not a "go" for me but will probably be with patch 2.05 or 2.06

I'd say buy it now, even if only to support devs, and get a few quick historical scenarios played.

If fuly pleased then have a go at the campaign, if still not satisfied by the last immersion breakers left then be prepared to wait a few more monthes for the last polish layers.

#1722467 - 08/14/06 11:46 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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rollnloop. Offline
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Quote:
2. how is the AI - are they dummies, or are they smart and well programmed? Not to start a flame war (please no!!!), but compare to IL2 AI for reference points for me if possible.
Forgot to answer this one: both dumber and smarter, they use the appropriate "conservative" attitude for BoB theater that is much missed in IL2, but are mostly lacking in smaller scale fights, and fail sometimes to engage fighters attacking the escorted bombers (!), plus the few remaining warps... that said, the combination of AI behaviour and comms is THE gem of this sim, that is why it's always been one of the more "promising" WWII games.

#1722468 - 08/14/06 02:22 PM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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"and fail to engage fighters attacking the escorted bombers"

Rollinloop, the next time you experience this, check the moral state of those escorts.

Scott.


A2A Simulations
www.a2asimulations.com
#1722469 - 08/14/06 03:43 PM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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rollnloop. Offline
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It was in quick action scott, eagle day or sort, so i suppose i can't do this ?

If it happens in campaign i'll tell you; thanks for support !

#1722470 - 08/14/06 03:57 PM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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JagerNeun Offline
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Quote:
check the moral state of those escorts.
My gosh, you mean if the guys are in a state of Grace or not? They sure thought of everything with this Sim. I guess guys that are ready to meet their Maker fight better. \:D

#1722471 - 08/14/06 06:32 PM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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Buddye1 Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by rollnloop.:
It was in quick action scott, eagle day or sort, so i suppose i can't do this ?

If it happens in campaign i'll tell you; thanks for support !
What skill level did you select in IA. Try it on hero and see if the AI engages.


Intel I7 920 processor (2.66GHz, 8MB cache), 6GB DDR3 Triple Channel @1333MHz, 1.8GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295, Sound Blaster X-Fi PCI Sound Card, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit , CH Fighter Stick & Pedals ,TrackIR4 Pro thanks to BobII crew.
#1722472 - 08/14/06 08:48 PM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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rollnloop. Offline
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rgr, if i get close enough and still alive \:D

#1722473 - 08/16/06 08:43 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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Osram Offline
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Skill can be important as well, but the first thing to check is indeed morale (British fighters) / Moral (German pilots). AFAIK skill and morale are independant and like in RL any combination is possible.

#1722474 - 08/16/06 11:07 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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IMHO BoB II just shines in aspects that are annoying in IL-2: immersion and especially AI behaviour.

The AI flying abilities and perception in BoB are far more realistic. The AI cannot see their low six, neither can they see through clouds (and the cumulus clouds they look sweet!) or know when you have got them in your crosshairs ready to fire.

No uber gunners that hit your head or oil cooler from 700 m while the bomber pilot is making a 5 g panic turn.

Larger air battles are confusing mess (as they probably used to be), no stupid conga lines circling at the deck after single enemy aircraft.

Probably some AI traits will start to feel annoying after more combat hours but at the moment it feels fine.

One of the most irritating flaws in IL-2 is that AI is not subject to same limitations like engine overrevving or overheating, max. dive speeds etc. as the player. I wonder if anyone has found such issues in BoB? Can you use the better dive of Bf109 to escape from the British planes? Is the AI smart enough to keep its altitude advantage and not dive after you?

#1722475 - 08/20/06 02:14 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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609 Recon Offline
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One more question:

Is there a bombing campaign - level bombing, etc...?

If so (level bombing) - how is it?


S!
Recon
#1722476 - 08/20/06 05:14 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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NealG Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 609 Recon:
One more question:

Is there a bombing campaign - level bombing, etc...?

If so (level bombing) - how is it?
I think -- I haven't touched the LW side since the original days of BoB1 -- that the only flyable bomber is the Stuka. You CAN man the gunner positions in...what was it? -- the Ju88 I think, or the Do17, and maybe in all the LW bombers, but not fly the bombers nor release the bombs. Only can do that in the Stuka.

Someone will set that straight soon if i am incorrect, but I think to the best I can recollect that is the way it is.


NealG
I will not lead, nor will I follow, and if you want to come through here you have 3 choices: go around; ask nicely; or bring a lunch -- you'll be here a while.
#1722477 - 08/20/06 07:32 AM Re: How is the immersion? and question on Joysticks  
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All three Luftwaffe level bombers appear in game, but currently only gunner positions are available.
Do17, He111, Ju88. There is a bombing campaign in the sense that you have the role of bomber commander - you fully plot the raids; you choose where, when, and how much bombing occurs, and where new bomber production is allocated. During any raid you then can choose to drop in as a gunner, or an escort fighter pilot.


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