Thank you JRT,

I understood your Danish, I think!

"Our English is your very familiar", is what the direct translation would be, but you probably meant that I'm very familiar with the English language. In Danish that would be something like; "Dit engelske er vældig godt".

I have been a Dane all my life but if such a thing as reincarnation exist, I must have been English at some point in time. English comes naturally to me and I have lots of opportunities to practice daily; watching English programmes on TV, reading books by English and American authors, and also through my work where I am often in contact with English speaking colleagues.

Your account of the Danish role in WW2 is very accurate and I'm rather flattered that you know so much about my country's history.

What is extremely interesting although at times confusing, is to observe past and current events and to understand how these events are influenced by the last 160 years of Danish history.

In 1848 - 50 Denmark fought another war with one of our arch-enemies Prussia over what today is Schleswig-Holstein in the northern part of Germany.

Here's a site with a very popular song from that time, inciting young men to walk into battle, today it is a song every child knows;

"The day I marched off" .

Sadly the text on the site explaining the complex and confusing background for the war is in Danish, but nationalism, civil unrest, disagreements on where the border to the south should rightfully be, were amongst the issues, as well as a real problem about who would be the rightful successor to the throne. The Oldenburgers were not able to continue the reign, I think too many of them were a bit too, shall we say excentric. Fresh blood was urgently needed. The current Royals are of the Glücksburg family and sometimes I wonder..... oh well, I'd better let it rest.

Here\'s a brief account in the English language about the conflict.

Foolishly we got involved in another war in 1864, again the issues was the southern border but by then the Danish Army stood against a foe who had learnt the lesson well and had united several forces from Prussia and Holstein. The Danish forces were ill-eqiupped and ill-prepared. Heavily out-numbered they were beaten in '64 in the Battle of Dybbøl", and every Dane is familiar with a painting representing the defeat and showing the soldiers as they retreat from the "Dannevirke" fortifications.

This left the country completely open and at the mercy of the victorious armies and there was a very real fear that this would be the end for Denmark as a nation. For some inexplicable reason and through the intervention of less hostile nations we only lost part of the Southern Jutland and were allowed to maintain our independence.

The deroute for the once mighty Northern country had reached it's absolute low-point. From ruling over Sweden, Norway and a Denmark that stretched deep into what today is Schleswig-Holstein, we were left with almost nothing. "What has been lost outwards, must be won internally" was the popular saying in those dark days. What we didn't have in territory we had to make up for by using what we had, better.

The 1864 defeat is still commemorated every year to this day, and only last year was the first time that Danish and German soldiers commemorated the day together. The events in ´64 was such a blow that it is still today a very important part of who we are and how we see ourselves.

When WW1 happend, naturally the bigget fear was that the Kaiser would finish the business from ´64 and take the rest of the country.

Erik Scavenius who was Foreign Minister at the time effected a type of "real-politik" which is still highly controversial: By maintaining friendly relations with both sides in the war, somehow he managed to keep the country out of WW1.

In 1920 some of the territory lost in ´64 was returned to Denmark through a referendum, but we were still very anxious about the powerful neighbour to the south.

With Hitler coming to power in Germany our fears were not put to rest.

People just south of the border but with strong ties to Denmark found themselves in a terrible situation, when they were forced to serve in Hilter's Wehrmacht.

When WW2 broke out it was clear that had the Danish forces opposed the oncoming Nazi's the result would not have changed by many hours. Years of disarmameant and pacifism had left the country completely unable to defend itself. Parts of the army and airforce were instead ordered to Sweden, where they could be kept in readiness, if and when they were some day needed.

As you mention JRT, parts of the navy simply sailed for allied port.

The fact that Denmark was occupied yet not occupied in the traditional manner, gave us the chance to save many lives, amongst these some 6 or 7000 jews who were smuggled into sweden, usually crossing the Øresund channel in small boats.

We have to some extent felt that not putting up a fight on April 9th 1940 was disgraceful, but the Norwegians who did go into combat when they were invaded, did not have the time and the chance to do much to save their jews, and I believe that while we feel bad about not taking up the fight, the Norwegians feel sad for not being able to save their jews. It seems like the choice was between bad and bad.

Most interestingly, the Prime Minister of this country at the time was Erik Scavenius, the diplomat who had kept us out of WW1.

Recent historical research indicate the the King; HRH Christian X, begged Scavenius to form a coalition government to save the country and to attempt to steer clear of the worst consequences of the war. Scavenius was very reluctant to do so, because he knew that he would be judged very harshly by history, for implementing such policies. In fact no-one in Danish politics at the time wanted to head such a government, but In the end he accepted the task and by doing so knew that he would become a very unpopular and hated man.

Indeed, in 1945, he was a persona non-grata, even with those circles that had implored him to head the government during the worst possible circumstances.

Some 60 years on I can't help but respect the man for his courage to once again conduct "real-politk". Without the benefit of 20-20 perfect hind-sight, the times must have been extremely worrying. The ghost of ´64 still weighing heavily on everyones' minds.

When the policy of cooperation finally broke down in 1943, general strikes and civil disobedience being the order of the day, the
Danish police force was arrested by the occupying forces, and resistance was finally offcial. What a turn in policy; from the
authorities encouraging Danes to join the Wehrmacht in 1939 and early 1940 (no doubt to appease), to officially sanctioning resistance three years later.

As a cynic I would say that by 1943 it was beginning to look like the allied might win the war after all, especially with the U.S.
becoming involved. But then again, with 20-20 hind-sight it is always easier to be critical. In early 1940 with only England in his way, Hitler looked unstoppable.

Certainly on May 4th, when the message of the Nazi forces' surrender in Holland, Belgium and Denmark was announced (everyone listned to BBC on illegal radios), the number of people involved with resistance in this country grew tremendously overnight!

As far as I know, no Danes fought in the Battle of Britain (three cheers, I'm finally on-topic) but some served in Bomber and Fighter Command and other arms such as SOE during the war. With the number of national TV-channels growing, I hope that someone will finally assemble and publish footage, interviews and other relevant material, so we can finally have a comprehensive account of the "5 accursed years" as they are known to us.

There are so many events worth remembering, from sabotage of production facilities and the training of Danish saboteurs by SOE, to the raid by Mosquito's on the Gestapo Headquartes in Central Copenhagen.

As you can see from reading this short bio on Scavenius, we are still debating the war years, and I might add, also the aftermath which was known as "retsopgøret"; an attempt to identify and to deal with the collaborators.

Folks,

MG:

You have a crystal clear grasp of history and the ability to write about it that is interesting, informative and so easy to read. Thank you for helping us understand the Danish perspective. You honor your motherland by remembering her history.

It is interesting, refreshingly informative moments like this when the true value of an international forum such as SimHQ is made quite clear. I have never had the good fortune to discuss this with a Dane before.

I would enjoy traveling to Norway, Sweden and Denmark one day. So many travel just to see the old piles or the historic locations and that is certainly wonderful. To my mind it is however the people of any land who hold the greatest interest, they are the national treasure of any country. They are in fact 'the country'. The universality and richness of the English language can be a delightful 'magic carpet' opening many doors of opportunity that swing 'both ways'.

I have an old NC acquaintance that I used to heatedly argue politics with whom I haven't seen in 5 years or more who visited Scandinavia. He had strong socialist leanings and visited parts of Finland frequently where he was apparently accepted and well looked after. The politics of that area would fill several days worth of posting. Let us not do that however.

Thank you again Jens for your kind comments and for posting your well considered thoughts about your homeland. It was a pleasure to read.

Folks,

FYI:

As I promised to do I dropped into the old BoB1 forum this afternoon and was pleasantly surprised. The last few days there have been several interesting new posts. OSRAM, Stickman, and a good many others seem to be auditing that old forum and they have responded to several questions regarding the original Rowan/BDG version of BoB.

Our old pal Zerosan2 has popped in with a word or two regarding both versions of the sim. Zerosan has both the BDG version and WOV. There are interesting comparisons to be read.

The old forum is alive. This means there is still interest in the BDG version even after WOV. Check it out.

Chaps,

I think what rankles most about the Kennedy assassination and leaves us dissatisfied with most theories is the fact that nobody was brought to book - was made to stand up and be subject to the full process of law.

Instead, we were left with a breeding ground for speculation and theorizing which will be the best we can hope for, until, as JRT has intimated, the full and definitive story comes out. No doubt by that time, any who could have been implicated would be deceased.

Best forget the Rowan Forum. Olga has been seen lurking for the odd straggler.

Folks,

Dux:

Your point is well taken. There were trials held of course. Clay Shaw was tried as a possible conspirator. All that was probably just a red herring. Jack Ruby went to jail where he became ill and died without telling anything.

Olga is still picking them off one by one,eh? I saw nothing of her while I was there today. This means little. It occurs to me that most poor blokes who fall prey to Olga never see her either....well they don't see her in time, that is.

Aye, the old forum does contain an interesting thread that perhaps leaves a tiny ray of hope shine through the tiniest of gaps between the wal and the door that one day..... some sort of IP multiplay might, just might be resurrected. And we must never give up hope, must we?

Regarding Olga, I thnk the reason why no one sees her in time is that she obstructs their view.

Folks,

MG:

Let us hope.

Quote:"...she obstructs their view." LOLFOFLMAO

Olga is so darn big she now has her own postal code. When she travels she qualifies for group rates all by herself. In the hot summer months the larger farm animals follow her around just to stand in her shade. The last time she stood on a coin operated weighing machine the card that popped out said "one person at a time, please."

Gentlemen,

I've just won the BoBII game on eBay so if I don't have similar problems to the original ROWAN install, should be able to offer initial opinion in a few days.

It cost £10.50 which I think is about $15.

At the moment I'm thrashing around over Iwo Jima up to my rice balls in F4Us and F6Fs!

Congratulations Old Dux. Hopefully she'll gracefully take to the sky without hiccups.

The original BoB and BoB2 can peacefully coexist on the same machinerey. I have Rowan's on drive D and BoB2 on drive C, and have had no problems from it.

The more I switch back and forth between the two, the more I appreciate the splendid job that has been done by the BoB2 team.

Folks,

Dux:

Lucky you. Have fun if your rice balls survive to fight another day. Do not under estimate the big F4U. They don't call it the "whistling death" for nothing. If you can find a pilot dumb enough to try to turn with you of course you will beat him.

There was an exceptionally interesting program on the History Channel the other night. It shed some new light upon the BoB, at least for me. The fine author Steven Bungay took part.

As old hands at BoB much of this will not be new to us. Some of it may however.

This programs conclusions:

The Spit did not win the battle. Oh, my how can I type that? It was better in a turn but the 109 beat it in both climb rate and in the dive. Conclusion the 109 had the advantage.

As we all know the 109 had an insufficient fuel capacity. They had 25 miles to fly just to get home after a battle. The 109 burned a gallon of petrol every 75 seconds at cruising speed and the same in only 30 seconds at combat speed.

The venerable veteran of the war in Spain and France the Ju 87 was obsolete by the time of the BoB. They were slow and under gunned. The pilot blacked out at the bottom of his dive and often was easy prey. They were removed from the battle.

The RAF Vic formation was not good for many reasons. The most important of which was that keeping tight formation made it difficult to keep an eye out for the enemy fighters. The German 'finger four' formation was so good that it is still used to this day.

Many times I have read that Britain was not prepared for the war. They had in fact begun preparations in 1923 even before the Luftwaffe was formed. Fighter Command's four groups were established in 1936. Airfield defenses by the beginning of the battle were formidable. They were in fact ready for a bomber attack.

There were many Lewis guns on hand and what were called (I think) Picket Hamilton Forts. Each field had 3 or for of these turreted weapons that rose from underground to fire. Many fields were protected with the very effective Bofors gun. There were 200 of these total.

One of the most brilliant defensive measures was developed to protect planes parked on the ground. This defense was simple but so effective the Germans were never able to destroy Britain's air force on the ground as they had done in other countries.

The innovation was called "E Pens" These were brick, concrete and earth berms in the form of a capital "E". Parking planes in the protected areas of these pens reduced the time an enemy had to acquire a target on the ground and the isolation of individual aircraft from one another prevented the destruction of one plane to carry on into several more.

Many say that Germany's greatest mistake was stopping the bombing of RAF air fields and RADAR stations. According to this program, had the Germans continued both the result of the battle would have been exactly the same.

A precise computer model of the entire battle was created (was this re-inventing the wheel Rowan?). Once that was established they made the changes. Airfields were bombed and bombed but it was found that over time the RAF was able to maintain a steady level of action while the Luftwaffe burned itself out. RADAR was eliminated however the ground breaking and brilliant inter connected (the first internet) network of the observer corps was amazingly effective and almost indestructible.

A Spit needed 13 minutes to scramble and gain the needed altitude. RADAR gave Fighter Command about a 20 minute warning. The observer corps was so effective that in a famous raid in September the Luftwaffe sneaked in under the RADAR screen flying low. Although RADAR never picked them up the Spitfires and Hurricanes were waiting for them. RADAR was a crucial advantage but not therefore totally indispensable.

A German general stated that the reason they discontinued the bombing of RADAR stations was that they actually thought that the RADAR operations rooms were underground and that they could not be destroyed.

I thoroughly enjoyed this program.