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#1392555 - 08/21/04 06:01 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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fearlesslds Offline
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But it's not out over here till Sept I think . Is multi not out yet as the one post mentioned only flying 2 early war aircraft . I think he was talking about this sim.. I can't believe those screens esp of the ground .Now if they'll make a good WW2 tank sim.


scott hill
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#1392556 - 08/21/04 10:20 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Hentzau Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by fearlesslds:
Can't wait for this sim to come out . Hope it comes out when planned unlike KOE . Have bought the Promised Land patch and it keeps kicking me out to desktop ... . Have myself and 2 brothers that love WW1 .
Try setting your game resolution to a different setting than your desktop maybe? That was often a problem with RB3D.

Thanks for the run downs and screenshots guys. I've preordered at Gamestop thinking that this one might be hard to find possibly. Heck, Circuit City never even stocked IL2FB Gold or AEP.

#1392557 - 08/21/04 12:33 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Cas141 Offline
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A frustrated update!
It seems there is a big difficulty, in that I cannot seem to get shot down!!
I mean, bloody hell, I can get varied and well modelled damage to my plane; I can crash into the ground and into my opponent; the opponent in my first "arena" can rocket me dead (not that I want that! ) but I don't seem to be able to be shot down by bullets.
Which no doubt dashes a lot of hopes!!
I cannot find a meaningful ini to see if this and other parameters can be changed. But I'm no big techie.
I cannot believe that a sim can fly so smooth, look as good ,if not better than F.B, (It has "perfect Water" in the Canals and rivers, with barges, and I run it smoother than I've run any sim,! ) -and not have what we simmers, as opposed to Arcaders,want.
I put the clouds on and they are brilliant!!!!!
I've had a look at the planes in the "hangar", and they are excellent, including the Bombers.
But I can't fly them 'til I "progress" and I can't do that until I pick up "markers" etc, and that seems almost impossible if flying in hard classic mode. i.e non arcade.

I really thought that I had found the WW1 flight sim, which when modded would become a classic.
Maybe it is able to be done, I dunno.
Drawde, have you found out any details to enlighten us as to whether there is any hidden depth to this sim?
Mind, It is EARLY DAYS. It hasn't been released yet in U. S. I have looked on the web to see what I can find out. Best I have come up with is
See http://www.dreamstation.cc/news/video_games/id4558

This says that the Parent Company is based in New York, and I wonder what their reaction might be if they realise that a patch ( or permission to mod etc ) may bring it into the proper flight sim scene, possibly a classic.
The developers are Silver Wish Games. I cannot find a website.
I hope to hell they are readers of this forum, and see what potential market there is, if they patch!.
The credits list all the personnel involved with the Sim's creation. If any SimHQ chaps know any of these guys, could a personal approach help this sim to be "amended"
Anyone who gets round to playing this sim, especially with trackIR, will know what I mean when I say
So near and yet so far!!

( I hope I've missed something \:\) )

Ursus S! - Hope you are well. If you see this sim run, just imagine FCG with these graphics and planes ( sigh!!)

cheers


Mankind's problem is not failing to know the difference between right and wrong; - It is failing to know the difference between different and wrong
#1392558 - 08/21/04 03:37 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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fearlesslds Offline
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Thanks for advice. I had already changed the res on screen down to nothing and it still does it . Oh well Sept 9th isn't that far off.


scott hill
#1392559 - 08/21/04 09:32 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ivor H Offline
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You can be shot down, for sure. Just try flying straight and level in the instant action mode, you won't last too long. The bandits don't seem to be great shots - they remind me of, but are somewhat better than, EAW1.2 where you could fly all day and they'd just weave about behind you and hose the sky. For some reason it seems safer in campaign but you are not entirely invulnerable to mg fire.

The visual damage is a bit overdone, lots of planes flying about missing fabric on an elevator or most of a wingtip. A bit un-nevring to hear a German for challenge you to a race in a mission! And the lack of hatswitch panning is an issue if you don't like mouselook or trackir.

A lot of nagatives for a sim but the potential is there "if only.." The environment (sky & terrain) has to be the most photorealistic of any - much better than IL2 or CFS3. Sure the edges of the 3d frests are not that great but the overall impression is much better than CFS3 with its forest textures with s few trees scattered about. Other trees line up in hedgerows like CFS3. The "maps" are distinctive, all are beautiful to look at, the Somme is just gobsmackingly gorgeous. You really have to fly around it to believe it. The fog isn't too far away as in IL2 but the terrain is much better than that or CFS3, it really raises the bar.

If this could be worked on to take out the worst of the arcady stuff, and even an FCG-style scripted campaign provided - which can be ok, even the best dymanic campaign missions are always "samey" - it would be a top-notch flightsim, one of the very best; but that's a very big "if"...but for sure, we've been presented with a fantastic game engine, if only its present limitations can be pushed back just enough to take it into the sim category.


When you soar into the air in a Sopwith scout
And you're scrapping with a Hun and your gun cuts out
Well, you stuff down your nose till your plugs fall out
'Cos you haven't got a hope in the morning!
#1392560 - 08/21/04 10:16 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Cas141 Offline
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Sorry about this fellas but I came in here to , thankfully, correct my earlier bit about not being shot down.
As Ivor says, in Instant Action, you can and will be shot down. I'm still not sure about the Campaign situation. I'll just use that to get to the other planes. If I could do that any other way i would and just play deathmatch scenarios.
I have to say that in Instant Action, albeit I'm only in an Eindecker, I haven't had such long, great dogfights as in this sim.
I now think that the damage modelling is very good, a lot of bullets is what takes you out, bit by bit!! \:\)
Ivor says it re the terrain - It is wonderful. I have just been one on one over a factory town /railhead, complete with coal stocks piled up, being shot at by ground troops. Try it on winter settings, starting with a crisp sky and as you fight over ten mins or so the weather closes in ever so gradually and then the vis is down and finally you are fighting in a snow storm. That is on one of the weather random settings. Of course, you can have constant weather and seasons.
The sound of wind is always there masking the engine sound just enough to seem right.
And, yes, if you hang up the plane on little throttle you will stall and then head downwards, but the engine throttles up as it gets the fuel back and, of course,the eindecker will glide quite slowly. Which did fool me re the lack of stall I thought the sim had.
A small bug I found was in this one to one scenario amongst the town, the voice over shouts at my british enemy to cease fire as if he were not the enemy!! These voice phrases always give problems, don't they, in all sims?
About the towns - If you think IL-2 towns are good wait till you see these.
The balloons are the best - burn lovely. I had one observer jump but he Roman Candled.
Ivor -S! Have you progressed in the campaign yet to get to other planes?

As I say, I'm sorry if my posts seem to contradict, but I am on a journey here to try to find the best way to play a sim out of this arcade game.
I begin to get the feeling, almost,that the makers having made an arcade game don't realize just how near they are to having made one of the best flight sims. It would be great if they did and issued a patch for us hardcore types,( or let our brilliant modders loose on it ) leaving the original for the first intended market!!!

Whatever, it is great fun.


Mankind's problem is not failing to know the difference between right and wrong; - It is failing to know the difference between different and wrong
#1392561 - 08/21/04 10:34 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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FlyXwire Offline
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No problem Cas141 about your first impressions (or if they change as you get more familiar with the game), for many of us right now you guys are our only source of in-depth information on Wings Of War anyway!

Hey, perhaps you can fly any plane you choose from within the multiplayer game?

If co-op is present, then maybe missions can be flown where you can choose the plane type you like, or switch-out the composition of the aircraft within the missions?

Have you ventured into the multiplayer component of WOW much yet.............can you fly solo in a co-op mission (whether hosting online or on-LAN)?

#1392562 - 08/21/04 11:16 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ivor H Offline
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Hi Cas no I haven't unlocked any planes. Most of the MMP games avail are password protected and I can't get into the one that isn't (didn't bother installing gamespy as I'm an SP-only layer by nature). The few game files there seem to be, .dlls and whatever, are just gibberish to me. Almost nothing for an amateur to poke around with.

Another issue is that the maps/arenas - at least the instant action ones - are fenced in by invisible barriers in the form of magic winds which blow you & the AI back in. Haven't found this in campaign yet so maybe it's just to keep all the AI planes from getting to far apart. When you call up the map - the full one, not just the little "radar" - the arena seems reasonably big, not limitless but big just about enough for WW1.

Try a Somme instant action with just one enemy plane and a good few of your side. Then fly around low down, along the Lines. Look at the vehicles! Not just softskins, there are various tanks and armoured cars. For example I recognised one of the distinctive French WW1 tanks - a St Chamond or a Schnieder. There's what looks like one of the later British types too. The attention to detail in many places is unbelievable and it plays really smoothly! As you say the towns and buildings are exeptionally good. Listen to the effects if you fly around low in no-mans land in the Somme arena - in places there's ground fighting going on and there's a very convincing dim of battle with SA and arty fire going off. No people though but much else besides - and those bird flocks! Amazing!

Notice how your pilot figure (in one of the external views) looks around from time to time like in SFP1?

At one point I flew my Eindecker thru a Zeppelin shed (and got extra "shields" and an instant engine upgrade for doing so it seems!!). But I can almost forget the arcade stuff, the overall impression is so good; it's nearly cinematic, like being IN sequences from the Blue Max or Aces High.

For now, the trick would be to find a way to unlock all the planes for instant action. Or make hand-made missions that could be added to the game's listing. Presumably the voice overs can be dealt with by turning the voice slider down in options till a better way is found.

Albeit some of the skins available for each plane are gaudy, many are excellent as you've seen, and while they mostly have daft names and there are some oddities like the prototype Albatros triplane, they are very accurate models (though the Eindecker seems based on a restoration, as it has ailerons instead of wing warping).Like you I would be very happy for now just to be able to fly the other planes in inatant action, locking them till you progress in campaign was a bizzare design decision.

The game isn't yet on the take2games or gathering forums as far as I can see, just a tech spport e-mail. If the developer isn't going to build on this - I assume that's too much to hope for, but we must ask them - it would be nice if they could release a patch or some goodies to help along what could be a growing community.


When you soar into the air in a Sopwith scout
And you're scrapping with a Hun and your gun cuts out
Well, you stuff down your nose till your plugs fall out
'Cos you haven't got a hope in the morning!
#1392563 - 08/22/04 12:17 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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I have been playing this for over a week find it quiet addictive due to the quality of the models, some effects and terrain.

Edit: Running @ 1600x1200 with AA and Anisotropic graphic filtering up full and it's stonking speed \:\)

In the "campaign" mode the missions are too many for a sim and total arcade (go here, shoot that, come back bomb this, capture that and don't forget to do this). However the individual components of the missions are sometimes excellent (shooting down zepplins for instance is nicely done, as are the many balloon model types in the game (more great attentiont to detail).

The plane models are fantastic, and include internal details, controls, internal frame etc. The cockpits are varied and less detailed but still not bad (mod fodder \:\) )

The skins on all models are really top notch apart from some horrible, over-the-top and totally non-historic paint designs for some plane skins but some are really very good.

It's 'almost there'. The FMs on "classic" mode and "hard" game settings make it more enjoyable from a simmer's perspective, also there's an option to turn off "combined" controls which basically gives you rudder control. The icons and helpful bits in the hud can all be turned off making it more like a sim as others have said.

As I said the models are exceptional and I have got to fly in more multi-seat plane types including 2 3 or 5 seaters (I think) than any other sim. There are a fair few models maybe not seen in a sim before, certainly with this quality/detail, including water based bombers, large early bombers etc. These are also sometimes flyable or you are gunner but usually you get to fly them too after doing the mission bit.

Also I got to fly my favourite Bristol Fighter with a good active co-gunner in some missions nearer the end (in team DM mode you have no backseater).

The terrain is excellent, the attention to detail phenominal for an "arcade" game. It makes me think the developers are big WW1 fans and were either originally aiming for an ultra realistic sim, then got told to make it arcady for xbox, or wanted to put all the detail in there as they planned to bring out another game more simmy based closely on this??

I will post some screenshots shortly, and might make a movie with gamecam or fraps sortly too.

The Co-op mode isn't bad, you can get the dogfights to last a while if people spread out some, dive low etc, the powerups all though spoiling the sim effect do make multiplayer extended and fun.

When I and others posted on SWWISA that this has a great potential for modding, there wasn't a great reaction for some reason. Yet this is as close to a "modern" and "quality" engine as most of us will get near right now. I was thinking an IL2 type campaign manager and some FM and gameplay tweeks and this could be a seriously good sim.

The tremendous detail such as moving rods/gears in the wings in the Nieuport (Silverfish?) when you effect a roll isn't in any other sim and all it needs is some serious modders to look at it baaah!. Give me some pointers where to look and I'll make a start \:D

One thing.. whatever happens to this I am still buying KOE if it ever comes out !! \:\) )


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#1392564 - 08/22/04 12:25 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Wireman Offline
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Thanx for the info guys. Please keep it coming as this sounds like it has some potential.

#1392565 - 08/22/04 01:02 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Toadvine Offline
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Seattle
Is it possible to rip the wings off when you exceed the G limit?... He, he I suppose not. But I dunno, looking at the detail on the burning zep I wouldn't put it past them.

There is nothing like a WWI flight sim that is out on the market and making money to resurrect KOE in a hurry! Those publishers could be back knocking on Aspects door with their hat in their hand! Ha, ha I really hope this sim sells well. If it does it could be a real procussor of more to come.

#1392566 - 08/22/04 01:27 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Polovski Offline
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True Toadvine, I hope it sells lots on the PC and their forums get filled with "make it more realistic" messages \:D

No the wings don't rip off \:\/


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#1392567 - 08/22/04 01:30 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Toadvine Offline
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Do the devs have a forum? That would be great if they did.

#1392568 - 08/22/04 02:52 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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fearlesslds Offline
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fayetteville
Yes I hope it sells a lot also . That can only help . Lots of copy cats out there some good some better. They will always make a add on if it sells well enough if they work like other comp companies. I'd like to sell it sell like hot cakes just to show the people at KOE how wrong they are about us simmers. Will be 6 copies sold on my end at least.


scott hill
#1392569 - 08/22/04 03:13 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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fearlesslds Offline
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fayetteville
I'll buy KOE either way also and any decent sim that comes out wings with wires etc. Same with ww2 tank sims with MP but that is pie in the sky . I too think this will help KOE come out sooner of later as was mentioned.


scott hill
#1392570 - 08/22/04 06:22 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Hentzau Offline
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Maybe they have some sort of sliding scale for the AI gunnery in order to let people get "into" the game before giving up? Maybe the gunnery will become more deadly as you progress in the campaign? Wouldn't be a bad idea, IF it could be toggled.

Since this is Take2 Interactive, I've been wondering if the dreaded Starforce copy protection is on WoW? I hope not! Its probably the ONLY game coming out that I would buy even if it contained Starforce. I wouldn't be happy about it though.

#1392571 - 08/22/04 09:39 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ursus Offline
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Ursus  Offline
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Found a review at a german site, including screen shots. http://www.gamezone.de/reviews_detail.asp?gameid=21764#
edit: typo

#1392572 - 08/22/04 10:37 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ursus Offline
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As I understand, the developer Silver Wish games is a division of Illusion softworks, maker of Mafia and Hidden and Dangerous 1 and 2. If that is right, the developer is probably Chech. Could Wings of War have been made with the same game engine, the so called LS3D, that is used for both Mafia and HD2? I think there could be modding tools for those games around. Just a long shot...

Cas141, I'm fine, hope you are well too!

#1392573 - 08/22/04 10:45 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ursus Offline
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Ursus  Offline
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Stockholm, Sweden
Found the answer myself - if I don't misunderstand, this chech review states that the LS3D engine is used: http://games.tiscali.cz/reviews/wingsofwar/index.asp

#1392574 - 08/22/04 10:49 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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FlyXwire Offline
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FlyXwire  Offline
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Ursus, thanks for that link, and there are some excellent screenshots available there too!

Here's one of those that shows the SPAD 7's cockpit:

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UgAKA6oZ0...485884868944411[/img]

Looks pretty nice.

I saw that a cheat utility was linked that unlocks the planes and the game's campaign, but not sure how safe it is to use either. ;\)

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